Lionfish...Okay this is funny

[docwagner]

Sorry to come in so late on this thread and I will admit I didn't read all the comments thoroughly. From what I did read there seems to be quite a bit of misinformation about the lionfish problem. Currently these fish are spreading like wildfire from NC to the Caribbean with nothing standing in there way. They will devastate a reef by eating everything they can fit in their mouths. They have no natural predators in the Atlantic. Who ever released them into the wild should be shot. The scientists are in the "more research is needed mode" with few suggestions on how to control the population. I personally have seen a huge increase in Lionfish population in NC in just the last few years. Advocating hunting these fish seems to be the only avenue at this point to try and stem the tide. It might be the only control is for them to eat themselves (they have been known to be cannibalistic) after they eat all the other fish. They are good eating and it is true you have to be careful, but with some thought and care they can be trapped/speared and harvested (or left for dead). If anyone has any better solutions I'd love to hear it.

If you are an avid diver and like seeing colorful fish on a healthy reef, I'd suggest you get involved or in a short period of time these things will take over and there will be only dead coral.

REEF.org is a good starting place.

Happy hunting.

 

[NudeDiver]

Well, this is one way to handle a "prickly problem". I received this from the FGBNMS/NOAA this morning.

Personally, I'm against predator control. If you kill it, it should be because you either want to eat it, or because you were defending yourself. Killing creature A, just because it eats creatures B, C and D - and perhaps because you like creatures B, C and D for whatever reason, isn't very reasonable, IMHO.

Up these ways, they kill off the wolves and bears, because, you know, wolves and bears being wolves and bears, like to kill moose. But the hunters say, "now wait a minute - we want to kill the moose too!" So, now the hunters kill off the wolves and bears - so there are more moose - which they can kill off too. Whole thing strikes me as kind of strange really. I mean - I don't care if you kill a wolf, bear, or moose - as long as you eat it. But that's not the case in this scenario. The hunters just like to eat the moose - and to have them all to themselves.

My vote: let the lion fish be who it is...unless you want to eat it.

 

[docwagner]

The difference is the wolves, bears and moose are supposed to live there and if left alone would find a balance so that one species doesn't dominate the other. In your example the foreign entity is man who has demonstrated the ability over and over to change the balance of nature. The lionfish is a foreigner, introduced by some boneheads with no natural control and with time will upset the balance and dominate in an environment where it doesn't belong. That is the issue.

 

[Garrobo]

Guba: I always thought that rattler tasted like fried turtle rather than chicken.

 

[Guba]

Well, maybe more like spotted owl.

 

[NudeDiver]

The difference is the wolves, bears and moose are supposed to live there and if left alone would find a balance so that one species doesn't dominate the other.

"Supposed to" according to who? If you ask a lot of people up here, everyone other than "Alaska Natives" are not "supposed" to be living here - we have destroyed the balance of nature, blah, blah, blah. Nevertheless, we are here. Now, rather than killing off everyone other than the original inhabitants, we a working toward achieving a new balance. Like everything else, it is an emergent system.

In your example the foreign entity is man who has demonstrated the ability over and over to change the balance of nature.

Only for a limited time. Given enough time, a new balance is found. For a while. Until some new event occurs that requires a new balance point.

The lionfish is a foreigner, introduced by some boneheads with no natural control and with time will upset the balance and dominate in an environment where it doesn't belong. That is the issue.

Some might say the lionfish is just an immigrant. If you ask the fish, I'm sure it would tell you that it has as much right to the new ecosystem it finds itself in as anyone else.

 

[Robin T]

You make some excellent points, Nudediver, there certainly are examples of species invading without the help of humans. I can't remember where I read it, but there exists a fossil record of various crustaceans and molluscs that would invade each other from the north pacific to the north atlantic and vice versa every time the water got warm enough, resulting in devastation of the "locals" which were in fact the settled-down invaders from the previous interglacial period.

A lot of humans alive today are descendants from the Clovis people, who showed up in north america about around 10000 years ago, right around the time of the extinction of the american lion, the american cheetah, the american mastodon, the short-faced bear, the sabre-toothed cat...

Fortunately, bears, wolves, cougars and the like managed to fill some of the gaping holes, but I'm sure that didn't happen right away.

I have to admit, if the inevitable re-balancing of the tropical atlantic takes the few lifetimes I expect it probably will, I'd rather start slaughtering lionfish so I can exercise MY right to enjoy that environment, which is no less a right than the lionfish's. I say grab your spearguns and become an invasive species boys! It's what we're best at!

 

[NudeDiver]

I have to admit, if the inevitable re-balancing of the tropical atlantic takes the few lifetimes I expect it probably will, I'd rather start slaughtering lionfish so I can exercise MY right to enjoy that environment, which is no less a right than the lionfish's. I say grab your spearguns and become an invasive species boys! It's what we're best at!

I'm all for killing at will - as long as you're calling it what it is, rather than claiming it is the higher ground

I like your honesty

Cheers!
ND

 

[Hank49]

I'm all for killing at will - as long as you're calling it what it is, rather than claiming it is the higher ground

I like your honesty

Cheers!
ND

You had just posted you don't like killing them unless you're going to eat them. Whatever.
Man is the most destructive invasive on the planet for sure. But man realizes that and has created sanctuaries that even man can't invade in the form of national parks, protection of some tribal areas in the Amazon etc.
If it's inevitable that the lionfish will take over in the Caribbean, we might as well try and learn what kind of effect we can have on at least controlling it, even if only to create a mini "Yellowstone" (imagine if someone sighted Panda bears there. What would be done?) in Cozumel or Belize or where ever. We are definitley going to see what happens when nothing is done and it's too late.
Kill the lionfish, feed the crabs.

 

[docwagner]

I don't know, we were able to kill millions of buffalo without automatic weapons, you'd think we could spear a bunch of lionfish into near extinction with simple tools. Worth a try. Sitting on our hands is not a good alternative. Maybe at some point someone will offer a bounty on lionfish "scalps". Then we will see action. Better to get local restaurants offering lionfish on the menu (they are trying this).