Line skills

[InTheDrink]

I wouldn't recommend doing it in a rebreather if you're only going to get your training this summer. In September you'll still likely be working on improving your skills and learning to cave dive along with that isn't going to be easy.

As for instructors, check out Dennis Weeks, Diablo Divers. Looks like his website is having issues right now, but his e-mail is info@diablodivers.com

Cheers DA,

I think you're right a the notion of doing cave on a rb this summer isn't realistic. But I'll make as much progress as life will allow.

Thanks for the heads up on instructors - I'll confer with my buddy and my wife and then look at popping him a mail.

Cheers,
J

 

[lamont]

And if one is going to end up on a rebreather then there is the valid argument that skipping the doubles 'interval' makes sense. Doubles seem like a stepping stone from my point of view, albeit a pretty novice one.

your backup to the CCR failing is to go OC. skipping OC technical diving to go directly to CCR has never seemed particularly wise to me.

 

[InTheDrink]

You can cave dive wet in MX -- a lot of people do.

There are a number of good cave instructors that I know (and probably quite a few more that I don't). I would also recommend Dennis, who taught my Full Cave class. He's thorough and safety-minded, but he's also a heck of a nice guy and a fun person to spend four or five days with.

Another good instructor is Steve Bogaerts, who trained some of my friends. I think he may be a bit more stern than Dennis, just from socializing with him, but I haven't dived with him, so I could be wrong.

I have well-trained and knowledgeable friends who dive with Bil Phillips, so I would assume he also has a good attitude toward safety and teaches a good class.

There are many more choices than that, but those are the people I know and know of.

Thanks TSandM - very much appreciated indeed. I'll see if I can dig up their details and ping them.

Cheers,
J

[edit: btw, completely unrelated, but just saw a promo for the X1 - is the Lynne in the ad for the liquivision X1 you per chance??)

 

[InTheDrink]

IntheDrink,
From what I understand you don't dive dry yet?
If that is the case you have the following:

Learning drysuit
Learning Rebreather
Learning zero to hero in caves

I know bugger all about caving but I think if I were an instructor my reaction would end up in a phrase ending with off- sorry to be so blunt but the scale of what you are thinking of would have me worrying about your safety.

Concise summary but absolutely correct and I'm not saying that my conclusion would differ from yours either. My plan was/is somewhat slower than what might be available to me now. I'll see where it goes and I won't push myself more than I feel is safe. When it comes to diving I am actually very safe.

Thx,
J

 

[InTheDrink]

your backup to the CCR failing is to go OC. skipping OC technical diving to go directly to CCR has never seemed particularly wise to me.

Like most things about technical diving, I can guess reasons but they're pure guesses.

Why does skipping technical OC training in favour of going directly to CCR not seem wise? Genuine question. Is it just a task loading aspect? What if the person gets a reasonable number (50+) of CCR dives in before taking it deep?

Thx,
J

 

[lamont]

Like most things about technical diving, I can guess reasons but they're pure guesses.

Why does skipping technical OC training in favour of going directly to CCR not seem wise? Genuine question. Is it just a task loading aspect? What if the person gets a reasonable number (50+) of CCR dives in before taking it deep?

Thx,
J

I think its mostly a gas management issue. If you get used to diving all day long on 20 cu ft of CCR gas, its likely that you'll go too deep and too long for your OC gas reserves, unless you have some ingrained understanding of how much OC gas you need to get out of the dive you're doing.

 

[InTheDrink]

I think its mostly a gas management issue. If you get used to diving all day long on 20 cu ft of CCR gas, its likely that you'll go too deep and too long for your OC gas reserves, unless you have some ingrained understanding of how much OC gas you need to get out of the dive you're doing.

Good point and I can see your rationale. However, if one made a distinct point to ensure that one didn't dive beyond OC backup limits, would you still see 'skipping' OC tech as being a mistake?

From an entirely practical point of view, I could get so many more dives in, nearly daily, if I had a RB. I live and work 5 mins walk from the sea. And pretty much mostly boring training dives where I could push myself in a pretty safe environment. It is a lot more difficult for me to achieve the same on OC, simply cos of getting fills. Nearest place is a few miles away which makes lunchtime dives impractical.

Anyhow, I'm definitely not set on any particular course of action. I'm just trying to juggle time, money, logistics, opportunity, wife, kids, work, etc. Same trick everyone else is doing I guess.

J

 

[lamont]

Good point and I can see your rationale. However, if one made a distinct point to ensure that one didn't dive beyond OC backup limits, would you still see 'skipping' OC tech as being a mistake?

IMO, the best way to make a "distinct point" is simply to build up the experience. If you're not checking what you work out on paper against actually doing the diving, then you only have theoretical and not actual knowledge.

You could bailout to OC off the bottom every now and then to build up the practice, but most CCR divers seem to consider that a waste of gas.

 

[ucfdiver]

Good point and I can see your rationale. However, if one made a distinct point to ensure that one didn't dive beyond OC backup limits, would you still see 'skipping' OC tech as being a mistake?

From an entirely practical point of view, I could get so many more dives in, nearly daily, if I had a RB. I live and work 5 mins walk from the sea. And pretty much mostly boring training dives where I could push myself in a pretty safe environment. It is a lot more difficult for me to achieve the same on OC, simply cos of getting fills. Nearest place is a few miles away which makes lunchtime dives impractical.

Anyhow, I'm definitely not set on any particular course of action. I'm just trying to juggle time, money, logistics, opportunity, wife, kids, work, etc. Same trick everyone else is doing I guess.

J

Don't think for a second that you're going to save money diving shallow with a rebreather. Remember you have to repack sorb (or specialty cartridges on the DR unit) , replace sensors, and fix who knows what else (I see more people locally working on rebreathers than diving them it seems). You'll save money if you're breathing high helium mixes, but I just don't see any value in shallow RB diving. Actually I think you can dive OC cheaper than RB on 30-50ft dives if you have a decent SAC rate from what I've been told by a friend who dives a RB.

Also for the cost of a rebreather, you could easily purchase several AL80's or HP130's to get filled once a week and swap tanks each day. The HP130's could easily be doubled up for cave trips and AL80s would make great stage bottles. You're going to need the AL80's for rebreather bailout anyways.

I think you've found a tool you want (the breather) and you're struggling to find a problem that it fixes. I don't mean that in a rude way, I'm willing to bet a large portion of rebreathers are used for just that reason.

 

[TSandM]

is the Lynne in the ad for the liquivision X1 you per chance??)

Yup, that's me!