Light for Sony Marine Pack

[MattT24]

A few months ago I purchased the Sony Marine Pack, MPK-PHA for the DSC-P10. I am now looking at adding on a strobe; however, the light light Sony makes for the housing was originally designed for video and it is a light, not a strobe. Has anyone used the HVL-ML20M light? Does it work well or would it be worth spending the extra money to get a strobe from another company?

Thanks for your input

 

[XJae]

A few months ago I purchased the Sony Marine Pack, MPK-PHA for the DSC-P10. I am now looking at adding on a strobe; however, the light light Sony makes for the housing was originally designed for video and it is a light, not a strobe. Has anyone used the HVL-ML20M light? Does it work well or would it be worth spending the extra money to get a strobe from another company?

Thanks for your input

I never used it, but what I've read here on SB is that it is weak.
You'll probably find some good posts out there on it.

I'd personally go the sea & sea conversion route.
You can hook up a tray and arm and a 90 strobe, sync'd to the internal flash.

looks like sea & sea finally got around to updating their conversion chart from the p5.
take a look at http://www.seaandsea.jp/systemchart/sony.html

 

[ReyeR]

A few months ago I purchased the Sony Marine Pack, MPK-PHA for the DSC-P10. I am now looking at adding on a strobe; however, the light light Sony makes for the housing was originally designed for video and it is a light, not a strobe. Has anyone used the HVL-ML20M light? Does it work well or would it be worth spending the extra money to get a strobe from another company?

Thanks for your input

See this page:

http://www.scubaboard.com/showthread.php?t=30570&page=2

Re: my post in that thread, I would like to add that my dive buddy now has the C5050 with an Inon D-180.

 

[MacHeath]

I have a friend who uses the video light, it is indeed too weak. Better than a strobe at night though-at least the camera can focus.

I have the S&S YS-25DX strobe with my Sony, I'm happy with the results (very happy with some). If I was buying now though I would have gone for a bigger strobe. Especially so for the wide-angle lens. This seems to need lots of light and in a slightly wider beam than the YS-25 can supply.

 

[ThomasKMC]

Coincidentally, I am looking for the same solution, except that I'm using an older P9 camera with a Sony housing. So far, I certainly consider using video lights a viable way to illuminate the underwater object. The advantage is that I don't have to use the internal flash which saves battery power and prevents the housing from getting hot (I read somewhere that you should set the internal flash to low power if you use it). And since the video lights are on all the time, you save carrying around an extra uw light.
Using a strobe requires an adapter like the Sea&Sea Lens Caddy. I guess from what MacHeath is saying it's working well for him. But then, I also read other posts about sync problems.

Right now, I'm persuing the "lights" route and read about some user feedback such as this .
For example, the Ikelite Pro Video-Lite II seems the be a good option. But this direction may change the more information I acquire and the more I learn about underwater photography.

Your demands and shooting style may be different than mine, however. I'm looking for ease of use in a point-and-click kind of way. I had a Sea&Sea MX10 with YS40 strobe before which worked great. I only sold it because of its film limitations. So, it would be wonderful to find a similar, easy to use but digital setup with great looking output.

Last not least, money is a deciding factor, as always. I would like to stay well under $1000 for lights/strobes, tray and arms. I'm excited to find out what we will end up with.

Thomas

---------------------------------------
"Got Air?"

 

[ThomasKMC]

Here's the response from Ikelite regarding a suitable setup:

"OK, let me go at it this way.
Strobe would be the way to go.

IF, the camera flash inside a housing can be used, it should be deflected up so the #4100.5 DS-Slave can read the flash. However, we have found some problems with this method. If it is a very quick preflash it can not be read by the DS-Slave. If this case scenario we recommend the EV Controller #4100.6.

See http://www.ikelite.com/web_pages/mansensors.html and http://www.ikelite.com/web_pages/dsensors.html.

Hope this is of some help."

The baseline is that Sony housings (MPKPHA and MPK-Px) were not designed to use with TTL strobes. Manufacturers such as Ikelite and Sea&Sea came out with work-arounds such as the ones mentioned above. However, people have reported problems with this setup. As I am not willing to spend a lot of money on a system which does not work correctly, I won't go this route.
This leaves 2 options: video lights or powerful flash lights. Video lights aren't as bright as strobes but maybe they will work with the internal flash. Or mounting a powerful HID light with a wide beam is a good option. Any opninions?

 

[MacHeath]

Hi ThomasKMC

I'm not sure exactly what problems people are having with strobes on Sonys.
Personally I don't think the light option is as good as a strobe, there will be lots more (useful) light from the strobe.

I think to geat a really bright light (e.g. HID), you will end up spending more than for a strobe. Although you will have a nice torch too.

 

[ReyeR]

Hi ThomasKMC

I'm not sure exactly what problems people are having with strobes on Sonys.
Personally I don't think the light option is as good as a strobe, there will be lots more (useful) light from the strobe.

I think to geat a really bright light (e.g. HID), you will end up spending more than for a strobe. Although you will have a nice torch too.

There are 2 different issues with strobes with the Sony P series:

1. If you want TTL with the P series camera then your only options are Ikelite's DS-125 and DS-50 with the TTL sensor. What Ike is saying is that with small camera's the pre-flash can be missed by the sensor giving an incorrect exposure.

2. Manual stobes, like the Ike DS-125 and DS-50 with the EV (manual) controller, the Sea and Sea YS-90DX or even the external auto Inon D-180, would be a better solution but it wouldn't be ideal. The problem is that the current Sony P series cameras are full-auto cameras ie it chooses the shutter speed and aperture for you. In low light, which is what you usually get underwater at depth, it's going to choose slow shutter speeds and wide open apertures (like 1/30s and f2.8) to try and let in as much ambient light as possible. The output of light you dial into the strobe is determined by the strobe-subject-camera distance and the f-stop on the camera. Because the camera selects a wide open aperture for you, you can only dial in a low output on the strobe, otherwise you risk over-exposing the lighter parts of the picture. Which means that even though you have a strobe you are still restricted to slow shutter speeds, poor depth-of-field and green-ish (or blue-ish) pictures because you can't replace most of the ambient light (which has very little red) with the full-spectrum strobe light because you have to dial a low output on the strobe.

 

[Cecil]

But in manual could not you set the camera to underexpose and crank up the flash to compensate. This would get you a faster shutter speed and larger f-stop. This is actually what I've been trying lately with the internal flash. Set the ASA to 400, set the exposure to -2.0 ev and the flash to high to compensate. Here's an example. It's not a perfect solution but does help the problem.

 

[ReyeR]

But in manual could not you set the camera to underexpose and crank up the flash to compensate. This would get you a faster shutter speed and larger f-stop. This is actually what I've been trying lately with the internal flash. Set the ASA to 400, set the exposure to -2.0 ev and the flash to high to compensate. Here's an example. It's not a perfect solution but does help the problem.

Good theory, worth a few practical tests. I don't have a P-x now but tests on my C5050 in Program mode showed Exposure Compensation had no effect on shutter speed or aperture. My guess is that the compensation is applied after the image is captured on the CCD.
Also interesting things happen when you force the flash to 'fill-in' mode. Exposure Compensation stops affecting the exposure - it lets the flash duration and Flash Exposure Compensation do all the exposure adjustments. Therefore in TTL, using the camera's flash only, dialing a (-)2 EV on the Exposure Compensation and a (+)2 EV on the Flash Exposure Compensation effectively cancels each other out and nothing is applied. With an external manual strobe and the camera's flash blocked, dialing a 0 EV and (-)2 EV in the Exposure Compensation made no difference even though the strobe output was kept the same for both the shots. YMMV with the Sony cameras.
Regarding using IS0 400 - 2 things: It'll increase CCD noise in your picture. And, yes it'll give you better shutter speeds in low light conditions with the flash off, turn the flash on to fill-in and it should stop affecting the shutter speed the camera selects for you. Again YMMV with the Sony.