Life in the face of EVO

[rsingler]

I don’t know how much innovation is left, I’m ok with improvements like hose routing and really ok with having a floppy swivel to deal with

I never thought I'd say this, but I'm now giving Mares a look. Had a great talk with their chief engineer (Sergio Angelini) at DEMA, and reviewed one of his FIVE new patents in an extended discussion.
The Twin Balanced Piston (TBP) was the first thing that made me take a look. What? A piston head with o-ring being used to substitute for the diaphragm for pin activation? A throwback to an old DACOR Extreme. With 41 SCFM flow, it's more than I'll ever need. In addition to certification at 200m, the 82X (and a couple of others) have been tested to 400m!!
Or the second stage. The old bypass tube of the Abyss has been retained in their balanced models. I never really got it, until I saw their Epic Adjustable opened up. There's no hole in the barrel! The mechanism is sealed from grit entry, and ALL the gas goes through the bypass tube to create the Venturi vortex that improves lever depression. But the design hit home when I saw the cold water testing.
4°C and 165 ft at 62.5 RMV? A huge (and irrelevant) ice ball on the hose connection, bypass tube and mouthtube, but nothing on the case where the lever works. It just ain't going to freeze up. If you're a cold water diver, this is a slam-dunk choice.

With TWO novel designs coming out in the next year (at next year's DEMA), this company is bucking the general decline in the market with some interesting innovation.

Atomic has the TFX. Apeks has the new EFX. Now Mares. But Scubapro is just mixing and matching parts. Yeah, their manufacturing and design is superb. But QC is average. And innovation is MIA.

 

[BoltSnap]

I can always sneak one more pound in my pocket when they weigh my carry-on. And if you're leg heavy, even with neutral fins, that extra pound up high is great for trim when I'm not in a drysuit. Mk19EVO for me. Jes' sayin.
As for Scubapro's "new" lineup, they're just rearranging parts. Mk11EVO body, Mk17/19 env. seal: "new" Mk17EVO2.
I'm increasingly convinced that Scubapro's days of true innovation are fading.

I don't understand your point here, these are incremental updates not revolutionary innovations. They never claimed to be so, they are saying incremental updates/improvements. They do make these products better than their prior versions even in a small way.

How often do you expect them to come up with "true innovations"? Once a year? I think that is very unfair. I'd worry a LOT more when they don't keep updating/improving their products even on an incremental level. Show me any other dive equipment manufacturer that does what is even close to what Scubapro is doing in terms of daring to improve their product line and bringing new products on consistent basis in all categories? NONE! Most, if not all, others are limping along trying to stay one cm away from going under.

 

[rsingler]

Show me any other dive equipment manufacturer that does what is even close to what Scubapro is doing

Uhh, Mares?
I've been a Scubapro guy all my life.
Engineers leave Scubapro to go found Atomic. Engineers/employees leave Scubapro and join Mares. René Dupré leaves Scubapro to join a boutique luxury Phillipine liveaboard company?
I'm not arguing legacy. I'm not arguing manufacturing and design quality. I'm just stirring tea leaves.

 

[BoltSnap]

Uhh, Mares?

Yeah, right. They have nice dreams/fantasies but extremely poor on execution.

I'm just stirring tea leaves.

With mint please.

 

[lexvil]

Granted Mares has some interesting first stage innovations but not a company I’m interested in at this time, the TFX looks great and one of these days I may try one (second stage) but it’s more evolutionary than revolutionary. Overall the industry is in more of a retraction than expansion, there may be some really big things coming but this is a tough business to innovate in, to many divers live in a rut and seem to fear anything new.

 

[rsingler]

I’ll wait to see what they do with the 17 but for now the 11 looks like all I need.

How can you turn down a sealed reg?

If only the Mk25...
But, I digress.

 

[lexvil]

How can you turn down a sealed reg?

If only the Mk25...
But, I digress.

I find resisting the new 17 easy, since it’s not available
At least nothing important is exposed with the 11 (although I must admit I was wondering on my way home from Monterey today about the possibility of the MK 19 parts fitting the 11 EVO)

 

[AccessoryToBirder]

I can always sneak one more pound in my pocket when they weigh my carry-on. And if you're leg heavy, even with neutral fins, that extra pound up high is great for trim when you're not in a drysuit. Mk19EVO for me. Jes' sayin.
As for Scubapro's "new" lineup, they're just rearranging parts. Mk11EVO body, Mk17/19 env. seal: "new" Mk17EVO2.
I'm increasingly convinced that Scubapro's days of true innovation are fading.

Given your trouble with the environmental seal of the MK19 Evo leaking, can I ask why it's still your go-to? Why not the Deep 6 Signature 1st, which I don't think I've read about you having any problems with? Or are you even diving anything other than your TFX now?

 

[rsingler]

Yeah, "go-to" was a bit of an exaggeration.
The Signature is pretty flawless. The environmental seal is superior to Scubapro, but it's two minutes work to reseat the seal. The balancing of IP from full to empty tank is slightly better in the Mk19, but with a balanced second, who cares? And one of these days I'll start experimenting with shimming the Signature bias spring, to see if we can't tweak IP stability the way we did with the Poseidon XStream.
Truth is, I'm just always playing with the regs. I haven't talked much about the Deep6 simply because there's nothing to complain about. It might be nice to have a replaceable volcano, but I say that only because I teach repair, and see so many scratched orifices from poor technique. Chris Richardson feels that the extra seal and possible suboptimal alignment of a removable volcano makes it a poorer choice. And he's right, except that restoring a fixed orifice is quite difficult. Fact is, there's just not much to tweak with the Signature.
My obsession is with perfect valve operation. A crisp seal is easier with a diaphragm than with a piston, which is why I've migrated over the last decade from one to the other. And if tank particulates sandblast your volcano, it's easier to teach polishing a removable volcano than a fixed one.
But I can get perfect sealing with my Signature, and it's a brilliant reg. Last trip to Anilao, though, I was playing with the new Scubagaskets piston, so I didn't take either the Deep6 OR the Mk19. I took a piston.
Mostly, it's whatever has my attention today. I'll pick it apart or praise it, based on what I can observe and document. Since this thread is about EVO, I was happy to criticize Scubapro's lack of innovation. But there is no perfect regulator. There's always something to criticize. Does that make a difference for 90% of my diving? No. It's just ScubaBoard debate.

 

[halocline]

I’d be curious if any of the MK11 variants have better IP consistency throughout the supply range. The one MK11 that I worked on some years back rose almost 10PSI from 3K to 500 PSI. Not exactly a balanced 1st stage if you ask me.