Liability with buddies

[The Kraken]

In Re the original question:

There is no liability. A legal relationship does not exist.
There may be a moral obligation, but a legal obligation upon the part of either diver has not been established.

the K

 

[H2Andy]

as a buddy, you owe your buddy a duty of reasonable care to act as a
reasonable buddy would act.

if you breach that duty, and your buddy is damaged as a result, you could be liable.

if your buddy is killed, then you have damaged his/her spouse and children,
and you could be liable to them.

these suits are EXTREMELY rare. personal injury attorneys go for
deep pockets, meaning an insured professional, a dive outfit,
or an equipment manufacturer.

 

[Cacia]

Absolutely. That's precisely why the policies have the "consent to settle" provision. Insurance carriers hate it.

oh, I see what you are saying...

Kraken, I hope you are right. Still...all this buzz about legal concepts from the lawyers makes one nervous. itsbruce has quite a background in liability law and he seemed to think there was something to it...

Like I said before, the OJ thing rocked a lot of worlds. Some of us have never been quite the same!

And if you are not going to act as a "reasonable buddy", as deemed by a jury or a non-diving judge... This weekend, my buddy, the captain's girlfriend and a good diver was getting low on air and I said bye bye, as I had incurred some deco time. We were on the wreck at 127 ft and I watched her join the group of divers on the ascent line at 100 ft. The reality is this is how we dive. It probably would not be considered reasonable in court. yet, when you are there in 150 ft viz and a group of divers with a couple instructors are on the line, you feel fine about passing them off, if you have an "understanding". We went in "solo, but together".

 

[cowboyneal]

If you are out for a pleasure dive, you don't owe any duty to anyone, buddy or no buddy (but, for example, don't take this to mean it's ok to sneak up behind your buddy and close her tank valve). On the other side of midnight, if you start to make a rescue attempt, you must do so within the standard of care. In some US jurisdictions there are Good Samaratin laws so you can't even get sued if something goes wrong during a rescue unless you were reckless or grossly negligent, but I don't know about foreign jurisdictions. CN

 

[H2Andy]

If you are out for a pleasure dive, you don't owe any duty to anyone, buddy or no buddy.

generally, you do not owe a duty to strangers to rescue them.

by taking on the role of a buddy, you are now in a different legal position. you
have a duty to act as a reasonable buddy would under the circumstances.

there is case law out there (very little, though) that holds buddies
liable for being a negligent buddy.

 

[Cacia]

Once there is case law, doesn't that set a precedent?...new cases are then interpreted in that light?

 

[The Kraken]

But no "duty" exists because a legal relationship was not established.

the K

 

[Knight1989]

Since we are discussing liability issues, heres one, not sure if its been discussed yet or not. What if you are a current active DM, but are not acting in that role at the time, ie just out diving with your buddies. What is your liability in that situation?

 

[minnesota01r6]

Kraken - a legal relationship can be created without siging a contract. You do take on a duty to a buddy to maintain eachother's safety. Buddies have been found liable for things such as not performing a thorough pre-dive check, resulting in failure to realize their power inflator was not hooked up.

Catherine - case law is the law of the land for whatever jurisdiction in was created in. A New Jersey court decision does not change the law california, but it can be persuasive. A lower court cannot overturn a higher court either, but a lower court can make law if the higher court chooses not to hear the case.

EDIT: changed "impact" to "change the law" for clarification.

 

[minnesota01r6]

Knight - this has been discussed already, but the long and the short of it is that you will be judged based on what a "reasonably prudent" person with your same training would do. You have no duty to keep everyone safe (like you would if you were acting as a professional DM) but you will be expected to react better than an OW trained diver.