Liability of going pro?

[RJP]

one word answer... "maybe"

That's it, really.

The OP's question, as others have suggested, needs to be parsed a few different ways:

1.) ARE you more liable?
2.) Can you be NAMED liable in a lawsuit?
3.) Will you be FOUND liable in the lawsuit?

The answers to those are:

1.) Possibly
2.) Absolutely
3.) Maybe

PS - the other thing to consider is that, in US anyway, a dive professional may very well be held to a higher standard in terms of duty of care and/or findings of negligence EVEN WHEN NOT ACTING IN A PROFESSIONAL FUNCTION at the dive. Essentially "As an instructor, you should know better..." than the average diver.

 

[boulderjohn]

I used to respond to this question as most people have but some things have changed my thinking. There have been court cases that have made me wonder about this, both now and in the future. In the two that come to mind, though, the issue did not have anything to do with professional status. You can get the full details of both cases by doing a search of this forum.

In the Gabe Watson case in Australia, Watson plead guilty to manslaughter for failing to perform an effective rescue of his distressed wife. This case had a lot of misreporting of facts, so you may have heard something different, but the fact is that under the local rules for that area, he was convicted simply for not being competent in his attempt to rescue her. His highest certification level was Rescue Diver.

In a case in Malta, two divers died, both diagnosed with Immersion Pulmonary Edema. As I understand it, one of the other divers is being charged with their deaths on the basis of the fact that as the most experienced diver in the group, he should have recognized that the dive conditions were perilous and and talked the others into calling off the dive. He happens to be an instructor, but he was in no way acting as one on the dive, and it appears as if he was being charged for being the most experienced diver instead.

 

[Hawkwood]

John, in those two cases, did they really have anything to do with being a professional, or was it being the most experienced of the group/pair?

If it was the latter, then everyone would be in the same position at some point in time, so being a pro would not seem to make a difference.

 

[boulderjohn]

John, in those two cases, did they really have anything to do with being a professional, or was it being the most experienced of the group/pair?

If it was the latter, then everyone would be in the same position at some point in time, so being a pro would not seem to make a difference.

I think it was just being the most experienced diver around, so the only way to prevent that from happening is not to go diving any more. It is a disturbing trend.

 

[decompression]

jay you are talking about Canada (im an exspert witness here ) not the us its all different there

Ya....

 

[Grocio]

So every thing I have ever heard of advancing to the DM or higher levels is that "you're liable forever". Is that true? Are you liable outside of a classroom/teaching environment?

Can someone tell me liability in the following scenarios:
1) I am on a boat with 5 other people. 1 of those people is my buddy. Of the random 4 people, someone has an accident and dies. Am I liable?

2) I am on a fun dive with a friend. He decides to bring along a stage bottle, not for deco, but just to have extra air to play with at depth for longer bottom time. I am an instructor in decompression diving, and stage handling, but this is not a class, just a fun dive. He doesn't have a card that says "stage training" or some such. Am I liable?

3) I am on a fun dive with two friends. We are scootering. 1 friend has lots of experience on a scooter. Another has minimal experience/it is their first scooter dive. Neither has a scooter card. Minimal experience diver has an accident. I am an instructor scootering, but this is not a class, just a fun dive. He doesn't have a card that says "scooter training" or some such. Am I liable?

I understand that this is the United States, and one can be sued for any reason, at any time. But the real question is...am I liable?

lord1234,

The answer to your overall question depends on the laws in force in the territory where the facts took place. It may attract a given answer in Florida, another in Bonaire, and another in Raja Ampat. More than that, even within one and the same 'territorial jurisdiction', the answer may be 'yes' as far as civil liability is concerned, whereas it may be 'no' with respect to criminal responsibility.

If your question is motivated by the fact that you'd like to become a pro and that you really want to get competent legal advice about the issues you raised in your post, you may wish to seek the opinion of a lawyer knowledgeable of the laws on responsibility in force in the jurisdiction where you intend to work in the future.

It's just my two cents.

 

[Hawkwood]

I think it was just being the most experienced diver around, so the only way to prevent that from happening is not to go diving any more. It is a disturbing trend.

Cool, that's what I thought.

Yes it is, but I would imagine it's the same for a lot of activities.

What I am finding interesting in the discussion is that folks are hung up on the Pro thing and not the fact that it's the "experience" or presumption of experience that can make one the target.

You are in a group of five people doing an activity and something happens...the person with the most experience present will be scrutinized.

A bunch of ice climbers go out for a day. The least experienced person has an accident. Don't you think that everyone is going to "assume" that the most experienced ice climber in the group should have somehow prevented it?

 

[Steve_C]

Attorney needs to establish that you are more experienced.
Having an instructor card (or a rescue card or an AOW card for the matter) may make it a lot easier for an attorney to convince a jury that you are a substantially more experienced diver.

 

[Hawkwood]

Not going to dispute that at all.

A Rescue Card could be enough in any particular group as you say.

 

[RJP]

Not going to dispute that at all.

A Rescue Card could be enough in any particular group as you say.

Not sure if this is what you and Steve_C are saying, but there's often a post in this type of thread wherein people will say "I'm an instructor, but I only ever show my OW card so no one will know I'm an instructor and that way I can avoid liability issues..."

Rest assured, if there's a lawsuit, the plaintiff's attorney will find out everything about everyone who is even remotely involved. Not only will you not be able to hide behind the idea that "I only showed a Fish-ID card" but a clever lawyer will probably suggest that you actually hid your true level of certification for some nefarious reason.

"So... please explain to the jury and the widow of the deceased why you willfully hid the fact that you were a scuba instructor from the deceased?"