Liability Management When Friends Dive From Your Recreational Boat?

[Darnold9999]

Not my area of expertise either, but I doubt a waiver is going to be what you need. You want an insurance company lawyer on your side if something goes sideways. Get good insurance and read the fine print - or better get a lawyer that works in the marine insurance area to have a look at the fine print so it actually covers what you need covered.

 

[Alaskan Scuba Dude]

If you have marine insurance, the policy should indemnify the owner and provide indemnity to everyone on board.

 

[Darnold9999]

If you have marine insurance, the policy should indemnify the owner and provide indemnity to everyone on board.

The key word here is “should”. Read the fine print where things are excluded.

 

[Alaskan Scuba Dude]

Read the fine print where things are excluded.

Why read the fine print when you can have the insurance broker go over the policy.

 

[Darnold9999]

Why read the fine print when you can have the insurance broker go over the policy.

Seriously???? An insurance broker? The insurance broker that sold me my marine policy has absolutely no clue about boats at all and less about diving. I am sure she has some vague understanding about what it covers or doesn’t cover but I am not about to trust her to navigate the fine print of a marine insurance policy if that were important to me. It’s not, I understand legal boilerplate, but if it was she would not be high on the list of people I would get advice from. Possibly if your broker specializes in marine insurance but do they even exist and do they sell recreational boat insurance?

 

[lionfish-eater]

put the boat in an llc or s-corp that holds no other assets.
get a good insurance policy with automatic no questions asked medical coverage for a minimum of 50,000.
Get a personal umbrella policy for the value of your assets.
Hire a captain when you have guests.


You can't prevent accidents and guests should be allowed to chip in for gas or buy lunch at the dock without you assuming more liability. I asked my insurer and they said it's ok to have guests chip in for expenses.

I checked with my insurer about sponsored club events where I might have guests onboard or where I might be using my boat to provide perimeter protection for events like paddleboard races or fireworks and they said I am covered.

Your case is different because of your professional status, and because lawyers will try anything in court to blame the owner operator.

If all else fails use the standard defense
Deny everything
Admit nothing
Claim it was like that when you showed up
Make counter accusations
Be the only one breathing when the cops show up so you can make sure the story is told the way it needs to be told.

 

[Tassi Devil Diver]

Don't do anything negligent.

 

[Ana]

put the boat in an llc or s-corp that holds no other assets.
get a good insurance policy with automatic no questions asked medical coverage for a minimum of 50,000.
Get a personal umbrella policy for the value of your assets.
Hire a captain when you have guests.

I priced a no questions asked policy for similar coverage about 10 years ago. Don't recall the actual numbers but was high enough we figured it would cover a new outboard every 3 to 3.5 years worth of premiums. Granted outboards are more expensive these days but still.

I can't imagine the total cost if you add paperwork and premiuns for the LLC and the umbrella coverage.

Then to hire a captain each time there's a guest ? I don't even like to use valet parking, because it means a stranger is going to operate my car.

Regardless of likes/dislikes the cost of all that risk mitigation is quite high. Then to add some insult, if/when things go south, it won't avoid the temporary hassle, even if at the end your assets are protected.

Maybe it is a good thing we only get a guest or 2 a year.

 

[lionfish-eater]

I priced a no questions asked policy for similar coverage about 10 years ago. Don't recall the actual numbers but was high enough we figured it would cover a new outboard every 3 to 3.5 years worth of premiums. Granted outboards are more expensive these days but still.

I can't imagine the total cost if you add paperwork and premiuns for the LLC and the umbrella coverage.

Then to hire a captain each time there's a guest ? I don't even like to use valet parking, because it means a stranger is going to operate my car.

Regardless of likes/dislikes the cost of all that risk mitigation is quite high. Then to add some insult, if/when things go south, it won't avoid the temporary hassle, even if at the end your assets are protected.

Maybe it is a good thing we only get a guest or 2 a year.

Perhaps mine is different because I am on an inland lake in a midwestern city and the boating season is just a short 5 to 6 months per year here.

 

[Scraps]

put the boat in an llc or s-corp that holds no other assets.
get a good insurance policy with automatic no questions asked medical coverage for a minimum of 50,000.
Get a personal umbrella policy for the value of your assets.
Hire a captain when you have guests.


You can't prevent accidents and guests should be allowed to chip in for gas or buy lunch at the dock without you assuming more liability. I asked my insurer and they said it's ok to have guests chip in for expenses.

I checked with my insurer about sponsored club events where I might have guests onboard or where I might be using my boat to provide perimeter protection for events like paddleboard races or fireworks and they said I am covered.

Your case is different because of your professional status, and because lawyers will try anything in court to blame the owner operator.

If all else fails use the standard defense
Deny everything
Admit nothing
Claim it was like that when you showed up
Make counter accusations
Be the only one breathing when the cops show up so you can make sure the story is told the way it needs to be told.

Some good ideas here, especially the ownership structure and umbrella policy. Thanks.

However, there's no way I'm going to hire someone to drive my own boat. I get paid (not much, but paid nonetheless) to drive larger and less maneuverable boats than the one I bought. The fun of driving my own boat is part of the reason I bought it. I would grind my teeth to sawdust every time the paid captain's shifting abused my lower units. Besides, it's not the driving that will cause the liability trouble I'm worried about: it's the diving that occurs while the engines are off.

I'm also not worried about liability the friends we'll take out for social events that don't involve activities my insurance company thinks is dangerous. I know I'm covered when I anchor in shallow water and unroll the big swim mat for people to loll about on.

I'm also well versed in how how the Coast Guard determines when a friend is really a passenger for hire and when having more than six of them on your boat makes you guilty of violating all the standards in subchapter T for small passenger vessels. I'm confident I can persuade a Coast Guard boarding team: I know how they are trained and speak their language. I'm worried about the lawyers, judges, and juries if a diving mishap occurs. I know the professional liability policy I carry as a dive instructor will not cover these dives: it covers only classes taught in accordance with all standards to enrolled students for whom I have all the records in place.

I'd hate to have to resort to your "standard defense," but never say never I guess. Thanks.

You have a duty of care to everyone on board whether passengers ( paying) or visitors, inquire about insurance. Passengers and visitors are entitled to freedom from negligence on the part of the vessel
owners or their employees, freedom from reasonably preventable injury by other passengers or visitors, and freedom from intentional misconduct of the vessel owners or their employees. Under the doctrine of attractive nuisance, vessel owners who fail to anticipate and protect against a child’s natural attraction to certain dangerous conditions may be held liable for injuries to children thus lured into danger

Sorry I wasn't clear about how I was using the phrase "duty of care." I was referring to the responsibility dive instructors have for the safety of their students that goes beyond the resonsibility one dive buddy has for another. I don't know if it's true, but I've heard enough times to worry about it that dive instructors, even off-duty and diving in a non-professional capacity with certified divers who are not and never were their students, can be held to this higher standard. If I invite a buddy who holds only an OW card, but who has more years of more dives of greater difficulty than I do, I don't want my instructor status to assign me a responsibility for extra care for him when he will be diving independent from me, using his own gear.

I understand and agree with everything you say about my responsibility to run a safe boat, and I do have insurance. The equipping, outfitting, maintenance, and operating of this boat will accord with the highest standards of seamanship.