LGBTQ Divers?

[BVickery]

My brother is openly gay. Very vocal about stuff and I shake my head at some of his antics. The gay community needs to make a choice. Do they want to integrate into society or do they want to be their own thing. You can't have both. There is always going to be hatred, no matter how many laws are put onto the books about it (murder is illegal everywhere yet it is still commuted frequently). I had a friend who was openly gay, but didn't rub your nose in it. When he was confronted with it he would be 'Yes, I'm gay, so?" and left it there. Hell, my brother who prided himself at being able to spot 'gay men because I'm one' never picked up my good friend was gay. Its human nature to push back when pushed, and sadly a lot of gay activists are this way, saying I 'have to accept them' and such. I don't have to accept crap, its my choice that I accept them as they are.

 

[DazedAndConfuzed]

If you get harassed, there is the other guy's shutoff valve on his tank.

 

[fjpatrum]

My brother is openly gay. Very vocal about stuff and I shake my head at some of his antics. The gay community needs to make a choice. Do they want to integrate into society or do they want to be their own thing. You can't have both. There is always going to be hatred, no matter how many laws are put onto the books about it (murder is illegal everywhere yet it is still commuted frequently). I had a friend who was openly gay, but didn't rub your nose in it. When he was confronted with it he would be 'Yes, I'm gay, so?" and left it there. Hell, my brother who prided himself at being able to spot 'gay men because I'm one' never picked up my good friend was gay. Its human nature to push back when pushed, and sadly a lot of gay activists are this way, saying I 'have to accept them' and such. I don't have to accept crap, its my choice that I accept them as they are.

Don't take this personally, but the way I read that statement is you choose not to accept equality of gay people but it's okay because your brother is openly gay. If I'm reading that incorrectly, I'm sorry, but that's just how your statement comes across to me.

You're right, it's your choice to accept people as they are, but that has nothing to do with the fact that the law doesn't read that way.

Gay people aren't asking for anything more (as a group) than what straight people have had all along- the right to be left alone to act as they please (so long as not impeding other people's rights) whether that be over the top or not. That IS integration into society. Until that right is universal, LGBT people will want to have times where they feel 100% comfortable because it's not fun to be disliked for living your life.

Pick ANY minority and tell me you can't find a group that is specifically for them; be it Irish, Gay, Black, Puerto Rican, White, Bi-Polar, Dyslexic, Gay, Christian, Muslim, Single, Married, Divorced, Widowed, or anything else. People want to associate with people like themselves that understand similar situations they encounter. You obviously do it as an apparently non-minority person, why shouldn't LGBT folks? Integration into society doesn't mean giving up the option to be around people like yourself.

 

[BVickery]

Don't take this personally, but the way I read that statement is you choose not to accept equality of gay people but it's okay because your brother is openly gay. If I'm reading that incorrectly, I'm sorry, but that's just how your statement comes across to me.

You're right, it's your choice to accept people as they are, but that has nothing to do with the fact that the law doesn't read that way.

Gay people aren't asking for anything more (as a group) than what straight people have had all along- the right to be left alone to act as they please (so long as not impeding other people's rights) whether that be over the top or not. That IS integration into society. Until that right is universal, LGBT people will want to have times where they feel 100% comfortable because it's not fun to be disliked for living your life.

Pick ANY minority and tell me you can't find a group that is specifically for them; be it Irish, Gay, Black, Puerto Rican, White, Bi-Polar, Dyslexic, Gay, Christian, Muslim, Single, Married, Divorced, Widowed, or anything else. People want to associate with people like themselves that understand similar situations they encounter. You obviously do it as an apparently non-minority person, why shouldn't LGBT folks? Integration into society doesn't mean giving up the option to be around people like yourself.

What I'm trying to say is you can't legislate peoples beliefs on how they see each other.

If I wanted to open primarily a straight club, or whites only, I would be shut down fast or picketed. If you did the same thing, you would get lots of support. Trust me, being a white straight male at times is a minority. I had a social worker tell me I was in dire straights, that the state would most likely not help me just because I was 'straight white male'. My body is riddled with arthritis, severely malformed fight hip, rheumatoid arthritis starting to set in my hands. My neighbor at the time was a black gentlemen who was getting tons of assistance for alcoholism. Mind you, my medical conditions are well documented for over 20 yrs.

Again, I feel the gay community does get the shaft (not meant as a pun, but the common usage of the term). I fully support that they should have marriage equality, but where I draw the line is things like 'hate' modifiers. I don't care what race/creed/orientation you are. Assault is assault and making it so its even more 'wrong' to assault a protected class tends to irk a lot of people who don't follow in that area. It is now as Animal Farm put it 'some people are more equal than others."

Instead of forming a Dive Club that caters to mainly the gay community, form one that has strict open policy of accepting anyone/everyone as long as they accept others as is. It lets people who don't have everyday contact with gay people to realize that they are for the most part, normal in the general society of things.

 

[aquaregia]

The problem isn't that I'm worried someone's going to take a swing at me. Something like that is relatively easy to deal with (see avatar ).

The problem is the seeing people stiffen when they realize. Or not knowing how much you need to hide to avoid that. Blatant hostility is easy to meet with a "#$%@ you", but you can't really fault someone individually for a general lack of acceptance by society (eg half of purportedly-liberal California don't think that a same-sex couple constitutes a family). Everyone's trying to be comfortable, to the best of their abilities. Sometimes you just don't want to worry about it.

@BVickery No issue with you, but blatant antics are often to establish validity to oneself. Check out 60-dive DMs. Edit: pun hilarious regardless.

 

[BVickery]

The problem isn't that I'm worried someone's going to take a swing at me. Something like that is relatively easy to deal with.

The problem is the seeing people stiffen when they realize. Or not knowing how much you need to hide to avoid that. Blatant hostility is easy to meet with a "#$%@ you", but you can't really fault someone individually for a general lack of acceptance by society (eg half of purportedly-liberal California don't think that a same-sex couple constitutes a family). Everyone's trying to be comfortable, to the best of their abilities. Sometimes you just don't want to worry about it.

@BVickery No issue with you, but blatant antics are often to establish validity to oneself. Check out 60-dive DMs.

In my eyes to stop the stiffening the way you describe is not to huddle in a group of like people, but instead be visible. Its a cultural shock. The person who talked about prudish cultures having the hardest time dealing with gay people is lack of interaction with them. To change it, you need to be out there and partaking in normal activities with everyone else. Forming groups to not have to deal with it isn't dealing with the core issue of the problem. If one were to look at in terms of diving, when a person first drops his head under the water he tenses etc. But as they dive more, they relax and get used to it. This is what we have here in the US in places.

The US has a bit to go in terms of equality for homosexuals, but they are clearly doing better than other parts of the world on this issue (again, take this as saying we have come a long way, and still have a way to go).

 

[aquaregia]

In my eyes to stop the stiffening the way you describe is not to huddle in a group of like people, but instead be visible. Its a cultural shock. The person who talked about prudish cultures having the hardest time dealing with gay people is lack of interaction with them. To change it, you need to be out there and partaking in normal activities with everyone else.

Sure, and nobody's talking about "only diving gay". You know how sometimes you want to go to a bar for a beer, but sometimes you're just really tired and just want to sit around in sweatpants with your housemates? I think a "sweatpants" club would be nice. Probably need a drysuit.

 

[DazedAndConfuzed]

The propensity to stick to people that is similar to you is obvious. Just look at the morbidly obese people that instinctively migrates to cruise ships. nobody has to accept them, pretty soon, everybody will be joining the group.

saying white male is like a minority just shows how blindsighted one is. Do you get harassed or have everybody's eyes on you everywhere you go? Do you get stopped by cops for no apparent reason everywhere you go? Do you get unwanted advances or have people visually undressing you everywhere you go? Do you get charged a higher price on services for some BS reason everywhere you go? Do you have opportunities get shut on your face once they realize who you really are everywhere you go? With white privilege, all those things are invisible, thus are perceived to not exist in society leading to a belief that this society is fully equal and anybody that makes a scene are just rabble rousters.

 

[Adobo]

Pick ANY minority and tell me you can't find a group that is specifically for them; be it Irish, Gay, Black, Puerto Rican, White, Bi-Polar, Dyslexic, Gay, Christian, Muslim, Single, Married, Divorced, Widowed, or anything else. People want to associate with people like themselves that understand similar situations they encounter.

I googled for some of these..

I found something for black divers, single divers and christian divers. I did not immediately recognize anything for irish, white (or aryan), bi-polar, dyslexic, muslim, married, divorced or widowed divers. Admittedly, I did not look hard.

I think the context of many people's lack of understanding is dive clubs which identify themselves based on sexual orientation, right?

Personally, I don't care one way or another if there is such a club or whatever. I also don't care about whether the club wants to have an event that invites its members only or invites only a specific type of person.

 

[Doc]

Are you SCUBA Curious?

I've spoken with my boyfriend a few times about starting a club in the Chicago area. I'd do more to get it started, but I'm just a guy who likes to dive. I've only been doing it since last fall. He's an instructor who I think would know more about what a dive club should be. Does anybody know of one in the Chicago area?

The GLBT+ community is a huge market, it is one of my wife's key concerns in the marketing of her hotel properties. Where there is money to be made, the marketing will follow. I was involved with various ski club associations over the years, and although the individual ski clubs were usually very small, there was nothing small about Gay Ski Week. When Colorado enacted some stupid legislation, the town of Aspen started a secession movement.

The key to starting any socially based sports club is to decide that you're going to do it.

Advertise through whatever means (flyers, posters, Craigs list, you get creative) that you're holding a meeting (usually at a bar or pizza joint?).

Have some speakers there with short presentations on: Fun stuff to see underwater, Island paradise travels, SCUBA instruction. It's good to have your own Instructor on-tap, but I would limit his presentation to the topic he is best versed in.

Later, a local hotel pool might be accessed for him to hold a Discover SCUBA. I think it would be a lot easier for a GLBT group to make this happen, most hotels are dying to figure out how to attract that market. Have this arranged in advance- make mention of it on the advertising and during the meeting.

Get them through the confined water certifications but also have in hand your ready plan to do the open water portion- whether it's at a quarry, lake, or a Florida trip. Plan on doing it both ways. Don't try to pay for your own travel on the backs of other participants, at least not until later when you've worked that out as a Club and begun to grow to support such niceties.

Start small, keep it simple, but... do something.

I know of several Caribbean resorts that are completely booked for given weeks by GLBT groups. This can be a sensitive issue in some countries as they are not as aware as we are of such things, so these resorts tend to be among the more secluded.