Let's see what the FTC has to say about vertical price restraints in the biz.

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Regulators aren't a black art, you know.

In fact, they're science. They're also recovered after an accident (if the body is anyway!) and are easily tested to determine if there is indeed a problem.

If you screw up as a repair technician, whether you're certified or not you're going to be toast, because the alternative is that the manufacturer takes the hit. They won't play "400 lb Gorilla" for you if it means that the consequence lands ON THEM!

If its NOT bad/defective, then they can "try" to do whatever they want; the forensics will determine what's really going on. And don't bet that the manufacturer is going to try to land this one on you if there really is nothing wrong with the service that was done, because if they do you have a big fat target to go after on your countersuit - that could, in fact, be quite profitable for you. I wouldn't take that bet at 100:1 odds.

You say that customer service makes the difference. I agree. It does. So where is it? Is it demonstrated by playing cozy-cozy with various certification agencies with programs designed to pander to a 4th grade intellect and separate you from money (rather than provide knowledge in exchange for money - a clearly fair deal) and engaging in price-fixing and other manipulations of the market with manufacturers and vendors?

I think not.

Now perhaps I have a "funny" view of this stuff. Heh, shoot at that all you want. We all sit on the customer side of the table through our life - I sat on the "business owner" side for 20 years as well though, and can tell you that while the customer is not always right (despite those who protest that they are, even when they're clearly wrong) its pretty obvious that if your firm exists to coddle up to vendors and agencies rather than serving customers you've got more than a bit of an attitude problem.

Mike, what you're describing is a whole web of flatly-illegal activities on the part of these manufacturers and distributors.

Nobody cares?

You're wrong.

Your customers care.
I care.
You care.
Other LDS owners (who have taken the time to think this through) care.

How hard is it to organize some resistance?

Impossible? I think not.

Want some help? How about a petition to Congress to drive an investigation on this? Faxed - not emailed.

Easily done - if you and the other honest LDS owners out there want to get this cranked up, just let me know. I can be emailed right here.
 
This is all Hypothetical crap, How many LDS Techies have been to court?
How many Dive stores have been shut down from "wrongful deaths" ?

How many Juries would convict a techie or Shop owner from making a legitimate error during a reg service.

After the service was performed, was the reg looked after correctly? How can one be sure that the owner of the reg NEVER opened it up and played with it?

How does one prove that the last person to service the reg was "Billy Bobs Repairs"?

Would a Jury say, "its OK, he's innocent, they were authorized to repair it."

Dave
 
The difference is wether or not we are insured. Assuming we are insured and there is a real trial, in theory, they are going to try to prove we failed to provide the expected duty of care.
Is it reasonable to expect the tech who works on your reg be qualified? yes. Who defines qualified? The manufacturer. Is it reasonable to expect the tech who works on your reg have up to date repair info? yes. Who gives you that info? The manufacturer. Is it reasonale to expect the tech use parts that meet specifications? yes. Where do we get those parts? The Manufacturer. I don't know if this has been tested in court but I do know that I can't afford to test it without my insurance company.
 
Uncle Pug once bubbled...
Sounds like you need to go OOB on the retail end of things and get back to just having fun!

YES!
 
gedunk once bubbled...




I say if your LDS is sincere & tries to do a good job for you, support it. Online stores have little to offer but low prices. If low prices are what you want, buy away. Just don't b*itch if the LDS "chooses" to not service what you bought online. Although i don't agree with that, it's the LDS's choice and they are entitled to it!

Just my opinion, i could be wrong:)

Question.

I am a foreigner, I moved to the USA about a year ago.
All my dive gear was bought from my LDS in my contry of origin. I doubt that they are "authorized dealers". I bought from them because they were the local shop, they offered full service on anything I bought from them.

Now Im in the good Ol USA.

Are you saying that many dive stores will not touch my gear because I didnt buy it from an authorized dealer?

That would mean that the LDS concerned has no regard for my safety what so ever. And if that were the case I wouldnt want them to have my money anyway!

Dave.
 
Give Dave a CIGAR!

(The interest isn't in your safety. Its in your wallet, and the attitudes expressed here make it pretty obvious that this is the case.)

As for anti-competitive actions by manufacturers, there is a solution - but it requires that the LDS owners be more interested in their customer's safety - and their interests - than those of the manufacturers.
 
Mike, I can relate to how you feel. I was in a similiar situation where the manufacturer, franchisor, used in my opinion outdated business practices. They only considered one thing - themselves.
They were also too concerned about saving a penny here to calculate the dollar lost there.

Suffice it to say that if I followed all their procedures I simply could'nt take care of my customers. No customers, no help from them except with a good kick out the door. I then scrutinized my contract with them, honored all my obligations, and found other sources with which to satisfy my customers. All legal. I found out they were'nt as slick as they thought.

This is an area worth exploring. It has to be done on an individual basis. I refused to blindly follow their line the minute I realized they did'nt care a hoot about me or my customers. Some business people don't know a customer standing in front of their nose. They're to busy looking at the customers wallet, as Genesis said.
 
Aquamaniac once bubbled...


Question.

I am a foreigner, I moved to the USA about a year ago.
All my dive gear was bought from my LDS in my contry of origin. I doubt that they are "authorized dealers". I bought from them because they were the local shop, they offered full service on anything I bought from them.

Now Im in the good Ol USA.

Are you saying that many dive stores will not touch my gear because I didnt buy it from an authorized dealer?

That would mean that the LDS concerned has no regard for my safety what so ever. And if that were the case I wouldnt want them to have my money anyway!

Dave.

That's the last thing i am trying to say. If you read my post, i stated that personally i don't agree with LDS's turning away equipment they carry but did not sell.

What i said was it should be the LDS's choice. I do NOT believe it is correct for anyone to MAKE them service products they did not sell. Anymore than i believe it is correct to MAKE anyone buy all their gear from a LDS.

And Genesis, i have to agree with you on my 400 lb gorilla argument except who is in the worst position, Billy Bob or the Manufacturer authorized tech? I'm not an Attorney but i know the answer to that one. A person who is specifically trained and authorized by the manuf. of the product in question is in a MUCH better position & you know it.

As for the 4th grade level programs put out by the certifying agencies you might want to tell that to the people that seem to have difficulty grasping the material. A 35 year old Attorney from last weekends class comes to mind. He could not seem to grasp the 4th grade level intellect of minimum surface interval table problems. Maybe he missed 4th grade!

I wish you the best of luck with the FTC. If there truly is the conspiracy & collusion you speak of, it should be stopped.

Personally i don't think it's there but with my 4th grade intellect it's very hard for me to fully grasp these concepts

:tease:
 
I'm a dive retailer. Any info I can help you with Genesis let me know. 3 other shops in the state would LOVE to help also.
 
gedunk once bubbled...


Lots of things

:tease:

Im not agreeing or disagreeing, I was just asking the question, legitimatly.

So let me ask the owners and service people following this.....Would you knock back my gear?
 

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