Let's chat about DSLR vs Point and Shoot - looking for some wisdom / experience

[deeper thoughts]

tursiops is busy attacking my photography and posts.... his judgemental advice is not helpful or welcome

I'm pretty happy with Canon equipment. That is why I posted in the Canon sub-forum. I'm also accustomed to how Canon gear works after using it for over a decade.

I did not start this thread to debate about what kind of photos I like or what brand of camera I should use. This is really a contest between settling for a G7Mk3 or investing in a housing for a DSLR and probably investing a little more in a better camera that could live in the housing for a longer period of time.

The middle ground might be adding a dome to Ikelite's housing for the G7Mk3 and seeing if that gets better results for me. Ikelite's housings have been very reilable for me with maintenance. I'd still add the vacuum port and system for the additional benefits it offers.

I agree on the hassle of yet another bag and entry/exit, etc. However, the reality is the additional baggage fees are miniscule compared to the cost of a dive trip. It's sort of like going on a cruise and skipping a premium on-board restaurant because it's over-priced. The nominal extra cost isn't all that important. If you can afford it and you want to do it, then do it.

There are some very good points made about the overall adequacy of a 1" sensor camera for the average diver.

I've always subscribed to the practice that the housing needs to go back for overhaul periodically. That's worked well for me. I have been rather unimpressed with most of the LDS when it comes to photography. They are usually run by thrill-seekers who are on the opposite end of the spectrum from me as a photographer.

However, it's a fallacy to compare a point and shoot with a 1 inch sensor to a full frame sensor and it's much larger much higher quality optics. The chart below is worth a look.

Interesting graph thnx

 

[nanohawk]

I started with a Nikonis II; worked my way up to film SLR's (Canon) and DSLR's (Canon) in Ikelite housings with Ikelite strobes. I had a very similar experience to @MaxBottomtime ; I took advice from someone about not leaving my housing all closed up from prep the night before, and jumped in the water in Belize without clamping it down. Hard to describe what a bummer that was. The liveaboard loaned me a P&S (TG5) and I surprised myself by not being really too disappointed in the results. For the last couple of years I have been using a TG6 as a travel camera rig, and I've been overall OK with the results. I do use the strobes (you can use RC optical from the TG-6 to trigger Ikelite DS strobes (with some extra optical slave receiver-to-TTL adapters on each strobe)).

I can certainly relate to the pain of flooding a camera. That was awfully nice of the liveaboard to loan you a camera after you excised the demons from yours with a saltwater bath.

Having that background, I very recently decided to not carry the bigger DSLR rig anymore and I have acquired a Sony RX100vii and an inexpensive (Fantasea) housing. If I continue to get good results I will likely look at the Nautica housing, even possibly use the external HDMI for a larger UW monitor (see deteriorating eyesight in the next paragraph).

I switched for two reasons. I want my home UW camera setup and my travel UW camera setup to be the same. I understand a bigger rig can go in a Pelican case and I admire Max's photos but for me I'm now trying to keep the weight and cube down. And my age and deteriorating eyesight even when corrected and even when wearing a Rx mask has driven me to two rules (one of which I have known from the beginning): carry a lot of light, and the new rule: get a camera with a fast, accurate, tracking AF. The Sony RX100vii has fast phase-detect tracking AF (software apparently brought to the little camera from the latest Sony A9 sports configuration).

I can also relate to eye sight issues. I made it just fine until a couple of years ago. Now I wear readers and I swear every year they get stronger. In reality I probably needed them earlier than when I was forced to admit it. That moment where you curse companies for using such small type on their packaging and instructions is an early warning sign you might need readers.

I just bought a ScubaPro Zoom mask and when I get my eyes checked next month I'll order the bi-focal lenses for it. I liked the idea of being able to swap out the lens to whatever I need for reading.

What is the battery life like? Reviews suggest 260 ish photos per battery. I tend to be pretty aggressive with photos. I grew up on the concept of 1 or 2 useable shots per roll of 36. I'm used to taking lots of photos and sorting them later for focus, composition, etc.

 

[DavidFL]

What is the battery life like? Reviews suggest 260 ish photos per battery.

I don't have enough real world experience yet to add any value about the Sony battery life. So far only 2-tank day trips, and it has held up fine on a single battery for that. I'm mostly using big video lights for both stills and video, so not using any battery for the camera strobe (there is no wired/electrical strobe sync available, so to use my Ikelite external strobes I have to slave from the firing of the internal strobe). I became accustomed to changing the (small) batteries in the TG5/TG6 after every two dives, and I'm expecting similar results with the Sony. I shoot both stills and (usually) relatively short video clips; occasionally take a burst of stills (which is easy using the video lights, not-so-easy using the strobes because of the internal strobe recharge time.

 

[tursiops]

My wife has a G7XII. It is nearly useless for macro without additional wet lenses. and useless for wide-angle without carrying around a wet dome. And it is useless for ambient light without ISOs that are toom high for comfort.

1) For those who made the jump from P&S to DSLR what were your experiences?

Mixed. For most it was too big a jump in complexity, size, and cost. M4/3 was a better step-up.

2) Folks who went from Four Locks to Dry Lock in Ikelite, was it worth it? Their marketing makes it sound like the only cheese you need....

Seems like DL is the future, if you are committed to Ikelite. Many have gone to Nauticam to upgrade from Ikelite.

3) Best travel setup? I'm thinking a hardcase that gets used as a carry on for strobes, dive housing, yada yada. Might be simpler to just check it also... no worse then checking dive gear which is a necessary evil. This is one of the advantages to a point and shoot.

Depends on where you are traveling. Hardcase definitely if you are checking it.

4) Is the pump system for checking cases worth it for those that have it?

Absolutely. Won't dive without it anymore. It does more than check the cases; it also preloads the o-rings, so there is less chance of water intrusion when you enter the water.

 

[nanohawk]

Great answers - Thank you!

My wife has a G7XII. It is nearly useless for macro without additional wet lenses. and useless for wide-angle without carrying around a wet dome. And it is useless for ambient light without ISOs that are toom high for comfort.

When I compared the g7xII and g7xIII the 3 won out on a number of fronts. I also concluded that I really need to have a dome if I'm going to do another P&S. Ikelite's 6 inch dry dome looks promising. Reviews on several sites indicated that the 200mm zoom on the Sony could be a challenge if you wanted the ability to shoot wide angle and macro on the same dive. The 100mm on the Canon was seen as being more versatile. As with all things, there are tradeoffs.

Mixed. For most it was too big a jump in complexity, size, and cost. M4/3 was a better step-up.

4/3 is something I'll watch. One of the interesting discoveries to come out of this is learning that Canon has killed the 5D. There will not be a 5DV. They have moved on to mirrorless, which really makes sense when you take into account everyone uses the preview screen instead of the viewfinder.

Seems like DL is the future, if you are committed to Ikelite. Many have gone to Nauticam to upgrade from Ikelite.

Agree on DL. It seems like a better system. Nauticam seemed like a quantum leap in cost over Ikelite. Realistically, I don't get as much dive time as I wish I did. Local diving is all cold spring fed mud-holes for the most part. We have one sand pit that is mostly clear until the OW classes get in and churn the sediment. Past that it's rig diving in the Gulf way out, a boat trip to Flower Gardens, or travel. I've always chosen travel for a variety of reasons. I would like to check out Flower Gardens but the chips have never lined up on those trips. Chips are time to do it, money to do it, trips available and weather cooperative.

Depends on where you are traveling. Hardcase definitely if you are checking it.

I think one should always plan on having your equipment checked involuntarily. You may plan to carry it on and find the overhead bins full at which point you are getting a free bag check. Airlines have become this cross between a bus with wings and customer service from hell. "Yes sir, welcome to Satan Air. We will be flying over water today, would you like to upgrade to a seat with a life preserver for $9.99 each way?"

Absolutely. Won't dive without it anymore. It does more than check the cases; it also preloads the o-rings, so there is less chance of water intrusion when you enter the water.

I was very pleasantly surprised to see the vacuum system. It just makes way more sense than cramming moisture munchers in the case and saying a prayer. I do like the alert system that a previous diver mentioned. But it's 30mm which is 1.25 inches for my fellow luddites in America.

Backscatter had a moisture alert system which is cute... but it should be possible to do a vacuum alert system without a hole in the case. That's another rabbit hole, but suffice to say the chips are $2-$3 to monitor barometric pressure.

 

[nanohawk]

I don't have enough real world experience yet to add any value about the Sony battery life. So far only 2-tank day trips, and it has held up fine on a single battery for that. I'm mostly using big video lights for both stills and video, so not using any battery for the camera strobe (there is no wired/electrical strobe sync available, so to use my Ikelite external strobes I have to slave from the firing of the internal strobe). I became accustomed to changing the (small) batteries in the TG5/TG6 after every two dives, and I'm expecting similar results with the Sony. I shoot both stills and (usually) relatively short video clips; occasionally take a burst of stills (which is easy using the video lights, not-so-easy using the strobes because of the internal strobe recharge time.

I have a similar usage profile. I seem to recall changing batteries on the boat from time to time. Battery life ratings are always very optimistically done anyway.

 

[David Haas]

From my own experience Canon G7X II and Sony RX100 VII on battery life......

If shooting optical tripped strobes and automatic S-TTL figure 150 shots or so per battery. This is shooting around ISO 100 - 160 to keep dynamic range better, 1/200 shutter speed and f.5.6 which is equal to almost f16 on SLR. There's really no need for WA or medium fish shots to close down the aperture more.

If shooting fixed lighting (as DavidFL says) you will get hundreds of shots because you're not using the camera's flash Same goes for ambient available light shooting. I once got 1,100 shots of whale sharks in Philippines and the battery indicator still hadn't moved.

For a mix of flash and ambient light / fixed lighting shooting I think two dives without changing batteries is a good benchmark.

DH

 

[Hoag]

If I may offer my two cents worth ...

First: Backscatter has some outstanding articles on their website in which they compare the advantages of one type of camera over another. They also have some very comprehensive reviews (many of them on video) of most of the more popular cameras.

Second: whether to choose P&S or DSLR is, IMHO, not a binary choice. There are several options that fall into other categories than these two. If you are trying to find a compromise between system size, image quality and cost, then a MFT might just fill that sweet spot. There are two lenses in particular that are outstanding underwater lenses. One is the Olympus 60mm Macro and for wide angle, the Panasonic 8mm Fisheye are both hard to beat. These lenses can both be mounted on either a Panasonic or an Olympus MFT camera.

Third (and some might say most importantly): As your own experience has shown, you really do have to treat any photographic equipment that you take underwater as expendable. You obviously take meticulous care of it, but you also have to be aware that accidents happen and you have to be willing to roll your eyes and take a flood as a lesson learned and be willing (and able) to walk away from a destroyed camera (and lens). For that reason, I strongly recommend never to take a camera underwater that you aren't willing to lose.

The Canon 6D is a great camera. It was my first DSLR with a full frame sensor. When you say you have a 17-40mm redline lens, I am assuming you have an L Series lens. You have to ask yourself, if something unforeseen happened, are you willing to simply throw this gear in the garbage.

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If I were in your shoes, I would watch the reviews on Backscatter and then let that point me in a given direction. You may find that you end up seriously considering a system that you hadn't considered before this search began.

 

[MaxBottomtime]

After flooding my Ikelite housing by not latching the back, I grabbed my video camera and had a little fun with my Nikon D700 on the reef.

 

[nanohawk]

From my own experience Canon G7X II and Sony RX100 VII on battery life......

If shooting optical tripped strobes and automatic S-TTL figure 150 shots or so per battery. This is shooting around ISO 100 - 160 to keep dynamic range better, 1/200 shutter speed and f.5.6 which is equal to almost f16 on SLR. There's really no need for WA or medium fish shots to close down the aperture more.

Very nice photos and good info on battery expectations.

If shooting fixed lighting (as DavidFL says) you will get hundreds of shots because you're not using the camera's flash Same goes for ambient available light shooting. I once got 1,100 shots of whale sharks in Philippines and the battery indicator still hadn't moved.

For a mix of flash and ambient light / fixed lighting shooting I think two dives without changing batteries is a good benchmark.

DH

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I will have to investigate fixed lighting more. That would probably be easier to manage in terms of batteries.