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wow i know this is so long ago... but ive heard this story before... and the dive master with you guys was a good friend of mine... just never forget the lessons you learned that day...
Lessons to be learned-Death in Palau
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wow... ive heard this story before and it was a first hand account as well... the dive master with you guys is a really good friend of mine and he would warn me about the cut over and over when i first got to palau.... hopefully the lessons you learned then will never be forgotten....
CaptainWilliam
New
I've completed reading the whole 52 page thread this week, and must say that it's a worthwhile discussion on many diving issues which are still relevant in Palau and around the world. I also see little downside to making a new post and bringing this thread to the top since it's content is still very important.
A bit about myself since this is my first post. I grew up on the water in MN and was first certified in the late 1980's. I moved to St Thomas from south Florida in 1990 and began working for VIDS (Virgin Island Diving Schools) which at the time conducted the diving (cert and "intro") and snorkeling tours for cruise ships- up to 100 divers + 200 snorkelers per tour; 2 daily tours. The young folks who worked there were given the chance to "earn as you learn"- which meant you could delay paying your class fees in advanced diving courses while you worked there. You could move from OW to Instructor while working and pay them off when you earned more. While I was there the staff was about 25. I became a SSI and NAUI instructor, PADI rescue diver, DAN O2 instructor, I already had been a ARC CPR and WSI trainer. I dived as much as 10 dives a day, but mostly it was closer to 5-8 each day for close to 2 years. In '92 I moved across the planet to Micronesia's northern most group- the Northern Mariana Island. CNMI's capital island is Saipan where I also conducted non cert diving tours but now with non english speaking divers. Then I moved to Guam and did the same thing. In 1993 I first visited Palau and then in '94 I moved there working for Sam's tours as a Dive Guide- one of two on staff at the time. During my first visit I felt like I had found home; Palau is simply amazing- it's God's marine Disneyland. I also worked as a fill in guide for the PH and Aggressor fleet boats on several occasions and was offered full time work on both boats which I turned down. I left Palau to become a USCG master in 1995 and moved back to Saipan; I'd make money there and move back with my good friend Sam, when I was out of money I'd return to Saipan. I also visited and worked in the Marshall Islands- specifically Bikini- and did a season on the Pacific coast of Costa Rica. By now I was guiding recreational sportfishing. In 2000 I moved to Midway Atoll and guided there and then in the winters I worked in Panama. In 2002 I moved back to Palm Beach county, FL.
My first point about this incident is that is regrettable and avoidable. My condolences to all involved and hopefully as the thread title suggests we have learned and moved forward. As more than a few have pointed out there is plenty of blame to go around- from the diver, the diver buddy, the briefing, the DM, the Captain of the boat, the owner of the vessel and last the practice of reef hooking.
Let me clear some thing up which are still present in this thread: A photographer did not invent the reef hook- Sam Scott made the first one on my idea/blueprint. Sam and I invented the reef hook together. It was against most all rules to tether yourself to the bottom while using SCUBA for a reason- you gave up your direct ascent to the surface. Other forms of non direct ascent diving are labeled overhead environment diving- such as cave, cavern and wreck diving and they all are subject to specific rules and procedures which need to be followed in order to complete the dive safely. There had to be a very good reason for doing this- and Palau's dive sites had that reason. People were trying to hold onto the lip and or other bottom and hurt themselves- and the coral. As a Sam's tours dive guide I felt personally responsible for the safety of all my divers- and in the conditions we were in that took all my attention. I had no time to take pictures or otherwise divert my attention for any longer than a few seconds. I also felt a personal responsibility to protect the simply amazing underwater world I was taking others to enjoy. I was frankly disgusted with the dive practices on some of the dive sites where divers held onto the wall or coral to stop themselves while taking a picture. SIDETRACK...Photographers by far were the worst offenders; yet that was one of the most experience groups of people who came diving. When you spend multi thousands of dollars on camera gear alone you've most likely already are an experienced diver with hundreds of dives. Photographers at Blue Corner and other high current dive sites broke coral on a daily basis- as did non photo taking divers. I had always asked my divers to be careful but I've found that even the most level headed person above the water can be wacky underwater. I found that assuming someone was going to be a high risk based on surface behavior was a tough call because so many that appeared to talk the talk did not walk the walk. The one's I knew I needed to watch were not the one's I had to save most of the time. OFF SIDETRACK
---------- Post added August 8th, 2013 at 12:19 PM ----------
(continued)
I saw that on Blue Corner the lip of the reef's edge was well dead before I came there as a diver. No coral appears to be able to grow on the lip about three feet down or up from that funneled current area. It's not an area with live coral despite what others think who have not dived there. The area behind is does have (or used to have) vibrant coral growth. The majority of divers want to sit on the lip and be with the sharks, rays, wrasses, groupers, jacks, billfish and tuna which gather at the edge. Holding onto the lip edge meant you were kicking coral with your fins; or you were using your feet to help lodge you into viewing position along with your hands. It was depressing to me. As an experienced diver and guide I came up with the idea of a personal anchor you could set into the lip edge and hang with the sharks. Sam made the first one, I tested it and within a few months the idea spread to nearly all the shops and boats. No one went around and told people how to use the reef hook properly or gave classes on it's use or dangers. It certainly did stop the majority of coral damage by divers- of this there is NO DOUBT. Use of the reef hook saves coral. ILIKEAIR and SASSYSCUBAGIRL and others have pointed out that anything touching the coral save clean ocean water will kill coral- this is true. Some have suggested that if you can't dive the site without touching coral then perhaps you should not dive. If that means no one should dive the site then no one should dive the site. That however is not reality. Divers will dive and divers will kill ocean life. I've been to places in the Pacific where few people have been and there are few if any tourists- and the life is amazing. Even with the best education and the best plans people will negatively effect the place they visit.
Reef hooks usage should be explained in detail by the DM at the briefing before each dive. They should have a quick release at the connection site- and you should not have to rely on your knife to be that release. DM should never- ever be taking pictures is my view. If you are focusing on your camera you are taking that time away from focusing on your divers. PH and the other liveaboards DM's felt picture taking was the way up and beyond "just" being a DM. I did not meet one DM on the liveaboard who did not take pictures while diving. I knew that was a pre-curser for disaster- and I was right. I also knew that many many divers were diving well out of their element and training. Some dives were like a lake and some were like a roller coaster- and one could turn into the other in a matter of minutes.
I hope people continue to safely dive Palau's wonders. I strongly recommend diving with Sam's tours due to his history and excellent staff and programs. I hope this discussion will continue and by searching "reef hooks" here and googling the same I see the discussion is on going.
Capt. William McCue
A bit about myself since this is my first post. I grew up on the water in MN and was first certified in the late 1980's. I moved to St Thomas from south Florida in 1990 and began working for VIDS (Virgin Island Diving Schools) which at the time conducted the diving (cert and "intro") and snorkeling tours for cruise ships- up to 100 divers + 200 snorkelers per tour; 2 daily tours. The young folks who worked there were given the chance to "earn as you learn"- which meant you could delay paying your class fees in advanced diving courses while you worked there. You could move from OW to Instructor while working and pay them off when you earned more. While I was there the staff was about 25. I became a SSI and NAUI instructor, PADI rescue diver, DAN O2 instructor, I already had been a ARC CPR and WSI trainer. I dived as much as 10 dives a day, but mostly it was closer to 5-8 each day for close to 2 years. In '92 I moved across the planet to Micronesia's northern most group- the Northern Mariana Island. CNMI's capital island is Saipan where I also conducted non cert diving tours but now with non english speaking divers. Then I moved to Guam and did the same thing. In 1993 I first visited Palau and then in '94 I moved there working for Sam's tours as a Dive Guide- one of two on staff at the time. During my first visit I felt like I had found home; Palau is simply amazing- it's God's marine Disneyland. I also worked as a fill in guide for the PH and Aggressor fleet boats on several occasions and was offered full time work on both boats which I turned down. I left Palau to become a USCG master in 1995 and moved back to Saipan; I'd make money there and move back with my good friend Sam, when I was out of money I'd return to Saipan. I also visited and worked in the Marshall Islands- specifically Bikini- and did a season on the Pacific coast of Costa Rica. By now I was guiding recreational sportfishing. In 2000 I moved to Midway Atoll and guided there and then in the winters I worked in Panama. In 2002 I moved back to Palm Beach county, FL.
My first point about this incident is that is regrettable and avoidable. My condolences to all involved and hopefully as the thread title suggests we have learned and moved forward. As more than a few have pointed out there is plenty of blame to go around- from the diver, the diver buddy, the briefing, the DM, the Captain of the boat, the owner of the vessel and last the practice of reef hooking.
Let me clear some thing up which are still present in this thread: A photographer did not invent the reef hook- Sam Scott made the first one on my idea/blueprint. Sam and I invented the reef hook together. It was against most all rules to tether yourself to the bottom while using SCUBA for a reason- you gave up your direct ascent to the surface. Other forms of non direct ascent diving are labeled overhead environment diving- such as cave, cavern and wreck diving and they all are subject to specific rules and procedures which need to be followed in order to complete the dive safely. There had to be a very good reason for doing this- and Palau's dive sites had that reason. People were trying to hold onto the lip and or other bottom and hurt themselves- and the coral. As a Sam's tours dive guide I felt personally responsible for the safety of all my divers- and in the conditions we were in that took all my attention. I had no time to take pictures or otherwise divert my attention for any longer than a few seconds. I also felt a personal responsibility to protect the simply amazing underwater world I was taking others to enjoy. I was frankly disgusted with the dive practices on some of the dive sites where divers held onto the wall or coral to stop themselves while taking a picture. SIDETRACK...Photographers by far were the worst offenders; yet that was one of the most experience groups of people who came diving. When you spend multi thousands of dollars on camera gear alone you've most likely already are an experienced diver with hundreds of dives. Photographers at Blue Corner and other high current dive sites broke coral on a daily basis- as did non photo taking divers. I had always asked my divers to be careful but I've found that even the most level headed person above the water can be wacky underwater. I found that assuming someone was going to be a high risk based on surface behavior was a tough call because so many that appeared to talk the talk did not walk the walk. The one's I knew I needed to watch were not the one's I had to save most of the time. OFF SIDETRACK
---------- Post added August 8th, 2013 at 12:19 PM ----------
(continued)
I saw that on Blue Corner the lip of the reef's edge was well dead before I came there as a diver. No coral appears to be able to grow on the lip about three feet down or up from that funneled current area. It's not an area with live coral despite what others think who have not dived there. The area behind is does have (or used to have) vibrant coral growth. The majority of divers want to sit on the lip and be with the sharks, rays, wrasses, groupers, jacks, billfish and tuna which gather at the edge. Holding onto the lip edge meant you were kicking coral with your fins; or you were using your feet to help lodge you into viewing position along with your hands. It was depressing to me. As an experienced diver and guide I came up with the idea of a personal anchor you could set into the lip edge and hang with the sharks. Sam made the first one, I tested it and within a few months the idea spread to nearly all the shops and boats. No one went around and told people how to use the reef hook properly or gave classes on it's use or dangers. It certainly did stop the majority of coral damage by divers- of this there is NO DOUBT. Use of the reef hook saves coral. ILIKEAIR and SASSYSCUBAGIRL and others have pointed out that anything touching the coral save clean ocean water will kill coral- this is true. Some have suggested that if you can't dive the site without touching coral then perhaps you should not dive. If that means no one should dive the site then no one should dive the site. That however is not reality. Divers will dive and divers will kill ocean life. I've been to places in the Pacific where few people have been and there are few if any tourists- and the life is amazing. Even with the best education and the best plans people will negatively effect the place they visit.
Reef hooks usage should be explained in detail by the DM at the briefing before each dive. They should have a quick release at the connection site- and you should not have to rely on your knife to be that release. DM should never- ever be taking pictures is my view. If you are focusing on your camera you are taking that time away from focusing on your divers. PH and the other liveaboards DM's felt picture taking was the way up and beyond "just" being a DM. I did not meet one DM on the liveaboard who did not take pictures while diving. I knew that was a pre-curser for disaster- and I was right. I also knew that many many divers were diving well out of their element and training. Some dives were like a lake and some were like a roller coaster- and one could turn into the other in a matter of minutes.
I hope people continue to safely dive Palau's wonders. I strongly recommend diving with Sam's tours due to his history and excellent staff and programs. I hope this discussion will continue and by searching "reef hooks" here and googling the same I see the discussion is on going.
Capt. William McCue
Last edited:
billt4sf
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A free flowing reg is nice to be able to anticipate also 
(turn your head change the direction of flow, blow, etc)
People wish to travel to the end of civilization and then be treated as though they are on a school field trip, sometimes, not the best strategy.
(turn your head change the direction of flow, blow, etc)People wish to travel to the end of civilization and then be treated as though they are on a school field trip, sometimes, not the best strategy.
CaptainWilliam
New
A free flowing reg is nice to be able to anticipate also
People wish to travel to the end of civilization and then be treated as though they are on a school field trip, sometimes, not the best strategy.
I actually asked many of the guests to imagine they were on the worlds greatest field trip but it was far from home, civilization and safety. Treat the island as if it were a International park and they were guests to learn and look.
My #14-42 dives were all in Palau and we had been briefed on reef hook use months prior to our trip and did some practice in far milder environments first. We received information on do's and don'ts from our guides and this included contingencies. The guides also splintered the group into smaller parties of 2-3 divers, each with a guide hooked off slightly upcurrent facing the divers.
Agree it is not a beginner's dive and that clipping off a reef hook to a BC is not the way to go. I also kept my left hand free to use any valves in case I became a 'kite'. Especially with triggers occasionally sampling the line. I believe proper use of a reef hook minimilizes any damage to the environment. On the other hand tumbling across the reef as if you are sliding down a glacier swinging an ice axe can cause havoc.
Training or practice should happen before hand; On-the-job training with reef hooks can be a factor as this thread highlights.
Agree it is not a beginner's dive and that clipping off a reef hook to a BC is not the way to go. I also kept my left hand free to use any valves in case I became a 'kite'. Especially with triggers occasionally sampling the line. I believe proper use of a reef hook minimilizes any damage to the environment. On the other hand tumbling across the reef as if you are sliding down a glacier swinging an ice axe can cause havoc.
Training or practice should happen before hand; On-the-job training with reef hooks can be a factor as this thread highlights.
My husband and I were the two "inexperienced" divers on the Peter Hughes liveaboard trip in Palau that started this post in 2003. I've read through all of the first 25 pages of this thread and a few of the last pages. I was surprised to see that people are still commenting on this incident ten years later and debating the practice of reef hook diving.
The reason I decided to finally comment after all these years is that being a witness to such an event is a PROFOUND experience that you never forget. The thing that has stuck with me the most is to NEVER be separated from my dive buddy. Over the many years since this incident, we have witnessed so many times where people are diving and oblivious to where their dive buddy is located. That it is nothing less than just STUPID. People get certified so easily and either ignore their training or don't get properly trained.
And for the record: We WERE told that it was an advanced dive, that there might be currents that could be too strong to allow a hook-in (hence my husband and I elected for the less advanced drift dive and had aborted earlier in the dive). The DM did a freedive to check the currents before the dive and informed the group that they were fairly strong and could get stronger. There were always 2-3 DM's in the water with us, not just one. And other divers who were eye witnesses to the incident underwater told us at the time that the DM that brought the diver up swam with almost inhuman strength to get to her and get her up, putting himself in real danger of the effects of a rapid ascent. The diver and her husband had only been diving for about 2-3 years, and so were not as experienced as many others on the boat. They were both very excited about the dive as were all the other divers that morning. My husband and I were diving with two instructors that morning because we were getting additional certifications. As far as the comments concerning the CPR being done, there were several very qualified and medically trained divers (other guests) on board. One was an orthopedic surgeon, two were dentists who knew CPR (and their wives also knew CPR), and of course, the ER trauma nurse, who did a heroic job of trying to save the girl's life. The captain was very involved in what was going on and EVERYONE was following the direction of the trauma nurse who was definitely in control of the diver's care.
So there it is...the facts of the incident. Not speculation and not blame. Just the inevitable result that eventually, something will go wrong and one needs to be prepared as best as possible, and know that if you attempt something beyond your level of experience, it can be disastrous. Also, accidents happen and either not being prepared or not having someone near you to help you when an accident does happen can cost you your life.
The reason I decided to finally comment after all these years is that being a witness to such an event is a PROFOUND experience that you never forget. The thing that has stuck with me the most is to NEVER be separated from my dive buddy. Over the many years since this incident, we have witnessed so many times where people are diving and oblivious to where their dive buddy is located. That it is nothing less than just STUPID. People get certified so easily and either ignore their training or don't get properly trained.
And for the record: We WERE told that it was an advanced dive, that there might be currents that could be too strong to allow a hook-in (hence my husband and I elected for the less advanced drift dive and had aborted earlier in the dive). The DM did a freedive to check the currents before the dive and informed the group that they were fairly strong and could get stronger. There were always 2-3 DM's in the water with us, not just one. And other divers who were eye witnesses to the incident underwater told us at the time that the DM that brought the diver up swam with almost inhuman strength to get to her and get her up, putting himself in real danger of the effects of a rapid ascent. The diver and her husband had only been diving for about 2-3 years, and so were not as experienced as many others on the boat. They were both very excited about the dive as were all the other divers that morning. My husband and I were diving with two instructors that morning because we were getting additional certifications. As far as the comments concerning the CPR being done, there were several very qualified and medically trained divers (other guests) on board. One was an orthopedic surgeon, two were dentists who knew CPR (and their wives also knew CPR), and of course, the ER trauma nurse, who did a heroic job of trying to save the girl's life. The captain was very involved in what was going on and EVERYONE was following the direction of the trauma nurse who was definitely in control of the diver's care.
So there it is...the facts of the incident. Not speculation and not blame. Just the inevitable result that eventually, something will go wrong and one needs to be prepared as best as possible, and know that if you attempt something beyond your level of experience, it can be disastrous. Also, accidents happen and either not being prepared or not having someone near you to help you when an accident does happen can cost you your life.
Shasta_man
Contributor
Successful dives/behavior produces complacency. Every dive you see people paying no attention to their buddy. Either for their own air needs or for whether the buddy is OK. Attracting attention underwater is not so easy either as many people pay no attention to noise. I'm conditioned to know the guide can be signaling either danger or the whale shark, so I'm instantly searching for the signaler. It can be a considerable distance to swim on no air to get to your buddies even though they are just over there. Adding currents, it can be very difficult to move where you need to go. I always try to stay within a relatively short distance and up current if possible. Hopefully it will always be unnecessary.
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