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firedogut:
You think there is a slight mark-up on these products........anyone really know what they pay for gear?

While you're at it, why don't you find out how much they are paying in rent for the floor space, how much they are paying to keep the compressor running and the rental gear working, the hourly wages of the employees, insurance rates, cost of the product dealerships and so on. The point is the service and support they should provide and you enjoy isn't free.

Ben
 
OneBrightGator:
While you're at it, why don't you find out how much they are paying in rent for the floor space, how much they are paying to keep the compressor running and the rental gear working, the hourly wages of the employees, insurance rates, cost of the product dealerships and so on. The point is the service and support they should provide and you enjoy isn't free.

Ben


I understand that you have to pay bills. That it cost a lot for different items. Hell a good cascade system and set you back 20,000. That a lot of $5.00 fills to pay for it. However rental gear is not the same. Places here rent BCD for 20 bucks. the BCD is a 200 jacket...that's only 10 rentals and it’s paid for.


I've been a manager before. I know you need to make enough to pay for the items plus you have to pay to keep the lights on.

The point is that there are dive shops in Dallas and in Florida and other places I’ve been who sell most items at a fraction of what dive shops around here charge. They seem to make the bills and then some.

It's time for more dive shops to expand their sells beyond their city. Go online and sell gear. instead of selling to 1000 people sell to 100,000. The cost to do this is not much. "But some gear makers won't allow this". If the divers and dive shops say to scuba pro and such that they won't buy/sell their gear unless scubapro allows online sells I think scubapro will change.

You will need to stop the gray market, but that is a different issue.


My point is that with time the scuba world will have to change or more and more dive shops will go under. I prefer buying from a LDS because of the people but I’m not paying $200-$1000 for this. I'll buy online from a dive shop and get the same gear with the warranty for 1/2 the cost.

Just my 0.02
 
I buy from my LDS (Actually all 4 LDS in the area). Sometimes you just gotta have it today. It kills me though when I get on LP's website a few days later and see that I could have bought the same thing for MUCH cheaper.

One example Scubapro Crystal view mask: I bought it in Virginia Beach for $80 on LP its $35. Thats a big damn difference. :28:

I have bought both sets of regs from LDS. I got a good price on both. Not quite as good as I could get online, but I wanted to get the Scubapro lifetime warranty.

Now I no longer buy equipment on impulse. I walk out of the store and check the price online. If its close I buy local. Otherwise I am going to save my $$.

I have found one LDS that will match any price. They matched the online price for my Drysuit AND they threw in the training for FREE!

REMEMBER: You have to support the LDS unless you have your own compressor and can mix your own gas.
 
miesemer:
Why stop at the Scuba industry. How much mark-up do you think you're paying on your groceries, beer, clothing, sneakers, etc. What profit margin do you think is fair for these products or for the product or service you provide in your chosen career field?

Before I get flamed for being an LDS owner...
I work in the environmental industry for a company that manufacturers groundwater remediation equipment. Our industry is having a very hard time surviving due to our profit margins being driven down to a point where we're barely making it. Many of the well know companies in our industry have gone belly up and the ones that are still around are operating on 50% of the workforce they had 5 years ago. Competing solely on price is killing our industry, product quality and customer service.

I don't intend to flame; conditions are difficult on any industry undergoing a change from a high margin model to a commodity one. Which is what I see happening. (Before anyone freaks out or posts the indignant "it is your life support gear", look at the market; it is quickly becoming commodity driven. Whether it should or not is immaterial, the trend is inexorable at this point.) I worked at Motorola when the costs of pagers and cell phones went from luxury items to commodity, and it tortured the corporate management. Ultimately, the company survived the job cuts and made the process improvements required to compete. Now, they compete well with the Nokias and Samsungs.

Margins in groceries is just a few points, VCRs is maybe 10, computers maybe that, if you have a brand to sell (Apple notwithstanding). Clothing, beer, and restaurants depend on branding for margins; Levi Strauss is going through the same battle right now, fending off Walmart/Target on the low end and trying to steal market share on the high end jean mfgs. Toys-R-Us, KB, et. al. are in the same boat. My current employer is nearing the 20W light bulb going off and realizing that it is a sunset industry. Survival of the fittest and all that jazz...

It seems inevitable the sturm & drang will probably produce an industry that is markedly different than today’s. Look at photography players being overwhelmed by digital imaging, at record/music storefronts dropping like flies due to digital music, and local bookstores battling Amazon/Barnes & Noble. The winners will be the ones who transform their business models before they are eaten/starve. Whining and trolling won't help...

Personally, I purchase most of my gear online, simply because my local LDS (with one exception) does not provide value to me. So why spend 50-300% more than LP, et. al. for little gain. I could relate the horror stories of asking an LDS to order stuff, repair equipment, etc. but the ultimate problem is the model they use is poor. To echo your final point, the LDSs will not be able to compete on price; you have to add value in some measurable way - service, travel, and information. Something...

BTW, the one LDS that I love going to is larger, brightly lit, has great inventory (what I want when I need it), and is perfectly aware of the online resellers (they aren't acting like vultures or angry about it). They put a lot of time and energy into service and information. So, my wife and I use them. Last month, she bought a mask and fins, there, and we purchased 2 Akona bags. Not a huge purchase, but we could have _saved_ $100 if we purchased from LP. They get it. The others, well...

My two pennies,
jwh
 
Scuba shouldnt only be for the wealthy. Most LDS's seems to think this way. I don't have a steady job and am having difficulty finding work. I love the ocean as much as any wealthy person and should not be scorned for finding cheap prices on quality gear. If it wasnt for ebay or leisure pro, I couldnt afford to dive. I do my LDS a favor though; I do pay for air and I'm sure he makes a profit when he services my gear. He doesn't service gear and just break even. I just bought a used tank from my LDS. Maybe if the industry started pricing gear so the not so rich can buy it, more people would enjoy diving. I also volunteer for water cleanups etc. (good on the resume). It really saddened me to see this rich boat owner waltz into the LDS and brag about pulling the legs off spider crabs. I respect the ocean and consider my self more down to earth and more deserving to dive than people who are so rich that they take the ocean for granted. I've yet to see 40 ft vis but done 168 dive in CT and RI and all but 1 from the shore in the last 4 seasons,
 
yogi_tala:
I don't intend to flame...
Whining and trolling won't help...
jwh

Really.

My intention wasn't "whining and trolling". I'm voicing my opinion as others have on the subject.

I just don't get the idea that every LDS needs to show it's bottom line to the public. One point I was trying to make was that you can shop for a product without having to know the cost to the dealer. I'd guess that most people do it all the time with the majority of their purchases. I haven't seen people lined up in the beer store asking the owner how much he pays for the case of beer they're buying and offering him 10% over his cost.

I also was giving my feelings on the remediation industry in which I work. Low margins have only hurt the industry. Experienced people leave the industry for greener pastures, product quality has decreased and companies die leaving customers (ultimately tax payers) without warranty coverage.

BTW - I'd guess the LDS never pays for the $20K air system on $5 fills.
 
"it is your life support gear"

so let me get this straight because it my life support it has to cost $$$$$$$.

Well I'm a firefighter and i can spend more on scuba gear then what my firefighting gear costs. And trust me my life depands more on my fire gear then my scuba gear. and my fire gear costs a lot more then scuba gear does to make becuase of what it is made from.

I just don't get the idea that every LDS needs to show it's bottom line to the public


When you are looking at spending 1500-4000 on gear i hope you shop around. Do you walk into a car dealership and buy a car with out looking into what the dealership pays for it? I hope not, you are tossing away $1000's if you do.


If we as divers want lower prices then we can make it happen. As more and more go to online dealers shops with either have to lower prices or go under.
 
"As more and more go to online dealers shops with either have to lower prices or go under."

Thats good point. Some dive shops will go under. Because they are too stuborn and aristocratic to lower prices. We have a dive shop here in CT who treat people pretty bad and they are still baffled as why business has dwindled and 20 volunteer staff all left at once. They just don't get it. I've yet to have one online dealer talk down to me in a disrespectful way as did this dive shope in CT did.
 
It is not just the dive industry that has to treat people well. If you noticed it Home Depot, Lowes, Best Buy, Walmart to name a few large stores have people around to welcome you and say good bye when you leave. These stores also have a liberal return policy basically no question asked. It is human nature to spend your money where the retailer appears to appreciate your business. As a retailer you are not bound to spend your hard earned money where you are not treated right.
LDS and others should look long and hard at the way the large succesful stores are doing business and hopfully learn from the observation.
 
Seems like some LDS's train their salemen to get the quick one time sale and not to worry about repeat customers. This is a bad business model IMO and leads to a viscious cycle of poor service. I see this happening all too much. With the growth of the internet, divers will get wise to product reviews, price charts, and will be able to compare prices and shop around. This wasn't the case 10 years ago. Things are changing and successful buisnesses have to evolve and change too. There is an exception that the shop in Essex, CT treat their customers with respect and kindness. Word of mouth get around at dive sites and the internet and now this shop has a very profitable year.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/swift/

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