Leisure Pro Pricing

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Well, the net result (no pun intended) is the perpetuation of the "I can get the same thing $239 cheaper at LP" type of posts - drives the perception that online dealers are much less expensive than LDS pricing than is actually the case.

As to "who cares about deception" I'll simply say that I'd never buy an item from a dealer that lied to me about the price - whether it was the MSRP or the final selling price wouldn't matter to me. Either way, they're purposely misleading you in an effort to get you to buy from them.
Exactly. A big perceived difference in price where the savings appear to be two or three times what they really are helps convince the buyer that it is worth giving up the advantages of buying through an authorized dealer:

1. Full mfg warranty coverage
2. Trying it in the store and knowing exactly what you are getting
3. Taking it home today rather than waiting for UPS
4. No risk of a grey market product, factory second, refurbiushed customer returned item, etc.

Plus you can get exactly what you need instead of just what LP offers. For example the Tec 2G in question only comes in a wrist mount from LP, but the dealer will sell the module only for even less money if you want to put it in an existing console or in one of DSS' excellent bungee mounts. In that case the $452 MSRP drops to $438 and you pay only $394 with a 10% discount. So in this case the actual savings are only $70 not the $239 LP claims and frankly $70 is not worth all the potential issues you could encounter with the LP product.
 
Exactly. A big perceived difference in price where the savings appear to be two or three times what they really are helps convince the buyer that it is worth giving up the advantages of buying through an authorized dealer:

1. Full mfg warranty coverage
2. Trying it in the store and knowing exactly what you are getting
3. Taking it home today rather than waiting for UPS
4. No risk of a grey market product, factory second, refurbiushed customer returned item, etc.

Plus you can get exactly what you need instead of just what LP offers. For example the Tec 2G in question only comes in a wrist mount from LP, but the dealer will sell the module only for even less money if you want to put it in an existing console or in one of DSS' excellent bungee mounts. In that case the $452 MSRP drops to $438 and you pay only $394 with a 10% discount. So in this case the actual savings are only $70 not the $239 LP claims and frankly $70 is not worth all the potential issues you could encounter with the LP product.


totaly agree with that and if you want to save money check scuba.com and then go to your LDS most of them are now price matching
 
just more LP FUD, move along people, nothing to see here...
 
In that case the $452 MSRP drops to $438 and you pay only $394 with a 10% discount. So in this case the actual savings are only $70 not the $239 LP claims and frankly $70 is not worth all the potential issues you could encounter with the LP product.

I'm sure a lot of people will agree with your analysis, and those folks will probably feel good about buying from a local dealer, assuming their local dealer isn't one of the creepy ones that give the good guys a bad name.

Others will look at it differently. Using the numbers in your post, I can pay $70 more for the insurance against potential bad things, or I can take the risk and be my own insurance. If I lose on this particular item, I'm out some cash. On the other hand, if I do the same thing on 5 pieces of gear that cost about the same, I save enough to completely replace any 1 of those five pieces if something goes wrong.

If 1 out of 5 pieces of my gear are having major problems within the first couple of years, I think it's time to look for a different manufacturer.

Authorized dealers are basically selling piece of mind and an insurance plan. I understand why divers like this, but I can also see why so many people are willing to take their chances.
 
I'm sure a lot of people will agree with your analysis, and those folks will probably feel good about buying from a local dealer, assuming their local dealer isn't one of the creepy ones that give the good guys a bad name.

Others will look at it differently. Using the numbers in your post, I can pay $70 more for the insurance against potential bad things, or I can take the risk and be my own insurance. If I lose on this particular item, I'm out some cash. On the other hand, if I do the same thing on 5 pieces of gear that cost about the same, I save enough to completely replace any 1 of those five pieces if something goes wrong.

If 1 out of 5 pieces of my gear are having major problems within the first couple of years, I think it's time to look for a different manufacturer.

Authorized dealers are basically selling piece of mind and an insurance plan. I understand why divers like this, but I can also see why so many people are willing to take their chances.
Over the years I have noted local dives shops provide a lot more benefits than just insurance against defects, but sometimes that is more than enough.

For example I bought a Wisdom computer shortly after they were released and it failed over a year into the two year warranty. The dealer swapped it on the spot in the store after a phone call to confirm they woud cover it and send him a replacement. So in effect My computr failed on a Saturday and I was in the water with a new one the next day (with suitable regard to N2 loading issues).

It then failed several months later - outside the original 2 year warranty, but again the dealer repalced in on the spot, and that again repeated about a year later when wisdom # 3 failed. Number 4 is still going strong, although it is now seldom used, and they seemed to have resolved the design flaws that were appearing with the somewhat extreme use my Wisdoms saw.

There is no way I would have gotten that level of support from an internet retailer. There is no immediate "in store" replacement or a temporary loaner while yours is sent in as there is no "store", so LP could not offer those options even if they wanted to. At best you are once again waiting for them to ship you a replacement and more likely you wait while you ship it to them, and they determine whether they will honor the warranty before they ship you anything.

Practically speaking most internet retailers, lacking authorized company support, are not going to give you a fresh warranty on a replacement item but will instead limit their liability by cuttitng you off X months/years after the original purchase when the original warranty expires.

In this particular case, I paid a lot more for a Wisdom at the LDS than I would have on-line (nearly twice as much) but it was well worth it as I got excellent support and still have a working comnputer rather than a paperweight.

In my experience I have also often paid full retail at an LDS, but gotten other benefits such as free air fills, deep discounts on other items, great package deals. Maybe more importantly, as customer who buys from them rather than saving a few bucks on line, the shops I buy from provide up front service and support and treat me like a valued customer. I guarentee if you walk in, try out/try on an item and then save a few bucks buying it on line, most shops will not give you the same fast, freindly service when your on-line purchase develops a problem or needs service - for good reason, as maintaining retail floor space and stocking items for people to try out costs them big money as does the provision of high quality customer support - and those costs get paid up font in the higher retail price you pay.

So people can feel free to buy on line and save a few bucks, but they need to be fully aware that they are not going to receive a level of service that they intentionally did not pay for when they opted to buy on line. Unfortunately, those are often the same people who complain about local dive shops providing them with a low level of service or consideration. Well DUH...they are probably not going to get the same level of service at the same level of quality as they never paid for it and the LDS has to run a business like a business if they plan to stay in business.
 
Of course there are those pesky full service Brick & Mortar Dive Centers who are not only large internet dealers but also fully authorized dealers who can/will price match any other authorized dealer. Sounds like the best of all worlds if you ask me.
 
I have (actually had) a dead Wisdom too. In my case though, it was well used (both in years and dives) before it died.

For any specific item, I suspect it boils down to if a customer is the kind of person who wants to pay more upfront for some unspecified benefit later, or the kind of person who would rather pay for what they need as they go. It's frustrating to me that so many shops force the pay as you go people elsewhere.

On a broader scale (not considering just 1 item), there are a few things like scooters, HID's, or drysuits that I wouldn't buy without solid dealer support. For most other things, I can see the logic in playing the odds.

Interestingly, when I think back about what I have bought over the past few years, my local shop has never lost the sale based on price. It's more common for them not to carry the particular brand/model that I'm looking for. I know there are newbies who use local shops as a fitting room and then buy elsewhere, but I bet a lot of online sales are just the only access divers have to the gear they want.
 
LP and Adorama are the same company. They share the same address, 42 West 18th Street, New York City, NY 10011. Check their respective webpages and see.


Yup, I've been there. Adorama is on the first and second floor and LP is on the 3rd I think.
 
So.. LP has a B&M location as does Scuba.com (been there too)... as well as Scuba toys.. do they not count as Dive shops? Or does only Scuba Toys since they actually train? I'm just curious what constitutes a dive shop because they all do have walk in B&M locations where you can try things on and etc. Obviously it's not a local unless it really IS local but then again, my LDS is 35 miles away passing a dozen or more dive shops along the way.
 
So.. LP has a B&M location as does Scuba.com (been there too)... as well as Scuba toys.. do they not count as Dive shops? Or does only Scuba Toys since they actually train? I'm just curious what constitutes a dive shop because they all do have walk in B&M locations where you can try things on and etc. Obviously it's not a local unless it really IS local but then again, my LDS is 35 miles away passing a dozen or more dive shops along the way.

With the business model dive shops have had for decades, profit from gear sales subsidizes training, fills, and service.

When you boil it down, talking about your LDS isn't really asking if you buy things from the closest dive shop. It's more like asking if you are spending your gear money in the same place that you get fills, training, and service.

It's obviously an outdated business model. Shop owners who get upset are frustrated that more and more of their customers are buying the things the shop doesn't make a profit on, and not buying the things that do pay the bills. That doesn't excuse poor behavior, or justify the feeling that a shop has a right to a customers business. It just is what it is.
 

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