Legally Blind leading the blind

[iyakonboats]

It's a safety stop. It's not mandatory. Don't call it a deco stop. That has implications. It's not simply a "syntax" thing. If you go on a rec boat and tell them you did a 3 minute deco stop you're liable to get benched for the next dive. Especially if you do something like say, "I blew my deco stop."

Words have meaning. Use the right ones.

This is not the same as the nebulous concept of every dive being a deco dive.

You are responsible for your cylinder contents. You are responsible for analyzing. The dive shop should provide you with an analyzer and analyze in front of you at some point. Painters tape is quite a common way of marking cylinder contents, typically with a MOD, initials, often with an indication of pressure too. Having your own analyzer is smart. Nitrox bands on tanks mean absolutely nothing. They're a stupid concept.

Your buddy sucked. That's why instabuddies suck. Price you pay for having that conversation a little too late. That being said, if you don't bring your own buddy, and the boat requires a buddy, you're stuck with what you get.

I misspoke, read a previous reply.

I had buddy, he wasn't allowed on at the last minute due to their scheduling issues, not what I am "stuck with", no refund either, as I'd rather of had him as a buddy

My "Conversation a little late", not entirely fault, my motion sickness was far worse then I had expected and I wasn't assigned a buddy until I was already yakking over the side of the boat and he was already in the water by the time I was gearing up.

Stupid concept or not, labels are a valid means for identification, we use them in engineering and aviation, for gases and liquids. The analyzer was supposed to be supplied, but my buddy wasn't allowed on, so went the analyzer I was going to use, given I couldn't source one myself and they didn't have one on "that boat", as I was put on another boat than the one I was originally supposed to be on.

Overall, it was a sh!t show, no doubt. A learning experience? Absolutely! Honestly, what we cost oflearnes,the charting our own boat for 3-5 dives is worth it for us, I'd gladly pay $500 to not deal with whatever comes on the boat, especially people who can't STFU on the boat for more than 5 minutes.

Now, back to watching my Astros screw up the world series

 

[doctormike]

Stupid concept or not, labels are a valid means for identification, we use them in engineering and aviation, for gases and liquids. The analyzer was supposed to be supplied, but my buddy wasn't allowed on, so went the analyzer I was going to use, given I couldn't source one myself and they didn't have one on "that boat", as I was put on another boat than the one I was originally supposed to be on.

I think that the point that was being made was that if there are two tanks - one with a big green and yellow "NITROX" band on it, and one with a piece of duct tape with "32" on it, the latter is more likely to contain EAN 32 than the former, and you shouldn't assume anything based on those bands, you need to analyze. They are also bad for the tank, so most experienced divers don't use them.

Not sure I understand how you ended up with an instabuddy when you booked with your regular instructor buddy. Did they bump him after he had the spot?

I think that you mentioned the possibility of bringing your instabuddy back to the boat and then continuing your dive? They probably wouldn't let you do that without a solo card and an alternate gas supply, or maybe if they could let you join another team? Logistically difficult.

Yeah, I was also not sure about your use of the term "deco stop". It's not just syntax, it's potentially confusing. You meant "safety stop", right?

 

[JohnnyC]

I misspoke, read a previous reply.

I had buddy, he wasn't allowed on at the last minute due to their scheduling issues, not what I am "stuck with", no refund either, as I'd rather of had him as a buddy

My "Conversation a little late", not entirely fault, my motion sickness was far worse then I had expected and I wasn't assigned a buddy until I was already yakking over the side of the boat and he was already in the water by the time I was gearing up.

Stupid concept or not, labels are a valid means for identification, we use them in engineering and aviation, for gases and liquids. The analyzer was supposed to be supplied, but my buddy wasn't allowed on, so went the analyzer I was going to use, given I couldn't source one myself and they didn't have one on "that boat", as I was put on another boat than the one I was originally supposed to be on.

Overall, it was a sh!t show, no doubt. A learning experience? Absolutely! Honestly, what we cost oflearnes,the charting our own boat for 3-5 dives is worth it for us, I'd gladly pay $500 to not deal with whatever comes on the boat, especially people who can't STFU on the boat for more than 5 minutes.

Now, back to watching my Astros screw up the world series

I'm not blaming you for the instabuddy thing. It happens. In this case because you couldn't bring your buddy and spent the ride out blowing chunks, that belated conversation ended up biting you in the ass a little bit. Happens to all of us at one point or another. The fact that the issue happened the second dive when he was fine the first sort of negates the whole thing anyway. It just happens, and when it does it sucks. Live and learn.

The important distinction between aviation and engineering (and the commercial gas operation that supply those industries) is that they are governed by regulatory bodies (CGA and DOT) that mandate certain specifications and legally binding requirements. When your local FBO calls up Praxair and orders a couple T's of ABO, you know that the cylinders were vacuumed, filled, analyzed, and labeled according to the regulations that govern that industrial sector. That doesn't exist in scuba diving, hence why labels are absolutely meaningless until they are assigned meaning through analyzation. Since nitrox bands do not describe contents, they are useless to the diver. Is it 32%? 36%? 50%? All three of those are nitrox, but without actual analyzation the label holds no meaning, especially since the label just says "nitrox." Nitrox what? There are serious consequences to breathing the wrong mix at the wrong depth, which is why the odds that the painters tape label with "32" is likely more trustworthy than a green and yellow band. I'm not saying labels are stupid, I'm saying nitrox bands are stupid. They're meaningless and have drawbacks with zero benefit.

As far as actually diving those tanks, I would have refused. On more than one occasion I've gotten a fill whose contents don't match what the tank monkey said. Do this enough and you will too. There's no guarantee that they accurately filled your tanks with the mix you requested until they are actually analyzed. Since you were unable to witness this, prudence would state they get you an analyzer, or you take the day off and get your money back. The fact that they only had one analyzer and it wasn't on "that boat" is concerning. Analyzers are cheap. They're being cheap or lazy or both, especially considering the rest of the snafu with your buddy and their scheduling issues. You were fine this time because the odds of someone pumping a full AL80 of O2 and not marking it are pretty slim, but let's say it WAS 100% O2, what do you think your reaction would have been had you been breathing it at 50 feet?

An analyzer is cheap insurance and I'm glad to hear you've already taken care of that. I wouldn't be happy that the boat didn't have one if they had nitrox onboard, but at least you won't have to worry about that again. I take mine everywhere anyway specifically for situations like these.

Sorry about the Astros. It was a good series!

 

[KenGordon]

You are asking if you were being too nice by not swimming away and leaving your OOA assigned buddy at 50'? Am I reading that correctly?

--No, on the surface.[/QUOTE]

Don’t leave an OOA diver at the surface either. It happens that people get rescued and then sink and are lost.

Ps sorry about the rubbish quoting, this sw is not very good.

 

[chillyinCanada]

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[NothingClever]

An analyzer is cheap insurance....I take mine everywhere anyway specifically for situations like these.

Exactly.

 

[iyakonboats]

I think that the point that was being made was that if there are two tanks - one with a big green and yellow "NITROX" band on it, and one with a piece of duct tape with "32" on it, the latter is more likely to contain EAN 32 than the former, and you shouldn't assume anything based on those bands, you need to analyze. They are also bad for the tank, so most experienced divers don't use them.

Not sure I understand how you ended up with an instabuddy when you booked with your regular instructor buddy. Did they bump him after he had the spot?

I think that you mentioned the possibility of bringing your instabuddy back to the boat and then continuing your dive? They probably wouldn't let you do that without a solo card and an alternate gas supply, or maybe if they could let you join another team? Logistically difficult.

Yeah, I was also not sure about your use of the term "deco stop". It's not just syntax, it's potentially confusing. You meant "safety stop", right?

Yup, meant safety. The thought crossed my mind about going back down, but I immediately dismissed it because the DM was already back on the boat.

They bumped him, even though he was allowed to book online and confirm, so it was monumentally frustrating for us, the entire operation was whack, just not very organized, sadly.

 

[iyakonboats]

I'm not blaming you for the instabuddy thing. It happens. In this case because you couldn't bring your buddy and spent the ride out blowing chunks, that belated conversation ended up biting you in the ass a little bit. Happens to all of us at one point or another. The fact that the issue happened the second dive when he was fine the first sort of negates the whole thing anyway. It just happens, and when it does it sucks. Live and learn.

The important distinction between aviation and engineering (and the commercial gas operation that supply those industries) is that they are governed by regulatory bodies (CGA and DOT) that mandate certain specifications and legally binding requirements. When your local FBO calls up Praxair and orders a couple T's of ABO, you know that the cylinders were vacuumed, filled, analyzed, and labeled according to the regulations that govern that industrial sector. That doesn't exist in scuba diving, hence why labels are absolutely meaningless until they are assigned meaning through analyzation. Since nitrox bands do not describe contents, they are useless to the diver. Is it 32%? 36%? 50%? All three of those are nitrox, but without actual analyzation the label holds no meaning, especially since the label just says "nitrox." Nitrox what? There are serious consequences to breathing the wrong mix at the wrong depth, which is why the odds that the painters tape label with "32" is likely more trustworthy than a green and yellow band. I'm not saying labels are stupid, I'm saying nitrox bands are stupid. They're meaningless and have drawbacks with zero benefit.

As far as actually diving those tanks, I would have refused. On more than one occasion I've gotten a fill whose contents don't match what the tank monkey said. Do this enough and you will too. There's no guarantee that they accurately filled your tanks with the mix you requested until they are actually analyzed. Since you were unable to witness this, prudence would state they get you an analyzer, or you take the day off and get your money back. The fact that they only had one analyzer and it wasn't on "that boat" is concerning. Analyzers are cheap. They're being cheap or lazy or both, especially considering the rest of the snafu with your buddy and their scheduling issues. You were fine this time because the odds of someone pumping a full AL80 of O2 and not marking it are pretty slim, but let's say it WAS 100% O2, what do you think your reaction would have been had you been breathing it at 50 feet?

An analyzer is cheap insurance and I'm glad to hear you've already taken care of that. I wouldn't be happy that the boat didn't have one if they had nitrox onboard, but at least you won't have to worry about that again. I take mine everywhere anyway specifically for situations like these.

Sorry about the Astros. It was a good series!

Funny, even my buddy, the guy who didn't get to dive with me, said I probably didn't get 32%. Seeing it happened to you too, happy I got an analyzer.

 

[doctormike]

Yup, meant safety. The thought crossed my mind about going back down, but I immediately dismissed it because the DM was already back on the boat.

They bumped him, even though he was allowed to book online and confirm, so it was monumentally frustrating for us, the entire operation was whack, just not very organized, sadly.

Wow, that really sucks. They should have made that right, somehow, and they sure didn't.

Hope you find a better operator, glad you have an analyzer now. Dive safe!