Learning to dive in Thailand and similan liveaboard

[georgie14]

Hi there,

Just looking for a bit of advice; I'm looking to go and learn to dive in Thailand in January. I've not started any of the PADI courses yet put have done an introduction to diving course at home and really enjoyed it.

I've heard that the visibility is best on the west coast this time of year, can anyone reccomend somewhere in/near Phuket for me to do my open water and advance? I've heard Ko Tao is cheap, would I be better learning there and then travelling across to the west? (Apologies if that is a ridiculous suggestion, just want to make my money go as far as possible without scrimping on the sort of teaching I would be getting!)

Also on where to stay? Once I've got the quallies under my belt I'd like to go and do a similan liveaboard so any tips on that would be great too!

Cheers,

G

 

[whooyeah]

Head straight to Khao Lak. Do your open water on a Livaboard and then Do your Advanced straight after.

 

[Quero]

I have to say that while whooyeah is correct that it's possible to do the Open Water course on a liveaboard out of Khao Lak, I don't believe it's the best option for most people. There's actually a separate thread containing excellent insights into this very topic here in the Thailand forum. If you decide on Phuket, let me know and I'd be glad to work with you.

 

[lord khram]

I would also not recommend doing the OWC and advanced back to back. In my opinion much better to do the OWC then get some experience before further courses. Once you are comfortable in the water with the basics of diving you will then gain much more from the next levels of training by being able to concentrate better on the issues relating to your course.

 

[DevonDiver]

I'd recommend doing the OW and Advanced OW back-to-back. The OWC teaches the very basic skills needed to be safe in the water. Nothing more, nothing less. It is a modular system... and AOW is designed to follow-on with OW. The Advanced Open Water course takes that OW training further and helps you gain more comfort and familiarity in the water. Some people view the Advanced Open Water course as if it were an Advanced 'Diving' course - it isn't. It is a continuation of the OW training (clue is in the name). In that sense, it isn't really the 'next level', but rather a simple broadening of the skills and experienced gained on the OW course. Most importantly, it gives you more instructor supervised experience in the water following the meagre 4 dives that you'll conduct on the OW course. When OW-AOW is viewed as a single phase, it makes perfect sense and gives a very adequate amount of student-instructor time, in order to develop competency. OW by itself can be hit-or-miss, depending on the student's capabilities.

Definitely do contact Marcia (Quero) about your training, if visiting Phuket.

Koh Tao is pretty cheap, but there's a lot of junk courses taught there. If you're gonna consider OW training there, then your first enquiry should be to Master Divers. They're one of the few high-quality, diver focused, operations on the island. Avoid the large-scale 'sausage factory' dive operations like the plague. There's a hundred factors that can differentiate a good scuba course from a bad one - those factors are hard to gauge until you have some reasonable scuba experience - and you'll be unlikely to tell if you're not getting a good course. On that basis, generally assume that you get what you pay for

I wouldn't recommend doing OW from a liveaboard - as they rarely visit ideal diving locations for entry-level training. Do the OW as a leisurely land-based course, then consider the liveaboard for AOW training. AOW from a liveaboard will offer you a nice diversity of diving sites/conditions in line with your developing experience on the course.

 

[Quero]

I agree entirely with Andy/DevonDiver. I can't tell you how many AOW students I've worked with who have had to unlearn bad habits they formed while getting some experience before embarking on the AOW course. The reason for this is that four dives with an instructor in a group class is simply insufficient time to get much of a handle on the buoyancy control, and although divers do eventually find their own way, more often than not they end up with poor technique that becomes ingrained. Doing the AOW soon after the OW allows the student and instructor to work together to avoid the formation of bad habits and poor technique, and this translates into more enjoyable dives and greater control in the water than produced by the trial and error method of getting lots of dives in before going for additional training. While some instructors, myself included, are emphatic about the acquisition of basic buoyancy control in the Open Water course, when working with large groups in abbreviated courses, many instructors do not have the time to dedicate to each student to help them develop buoyancy control very much. That's why we see so many OW divers who bounce along in the water column swimming like seahorses. Substituting bad habits for good technique with experienced OW divers who are doing an AOW course is not an easy thing for either the student diver or for the instructor.

 

[lord khram]

From another point of view, I have also had the misfortune numerous times of diving with people that have done courses back to back, and some seem to think they are 'advanced' divers, when the reality of the situation is that even after 9 or 10 open water training dives most divers still do not have full controll over their buoyancy and other basic skills. If things are actually as described in the above 2 posts, should it not be just one course?

 

[Quero]

I hear you, John, but what people think about their abilities is always highly subjective. Some people think they know everything there is to know about politics when they watch the Beeb, or think they know how to stay safe while driving a motorbike in Thailand because they can ride a bicycle and manage to keep the scooter more or less upright, or think they can figure out what's ailing them because they are fluent readers and can "research" medical websites on the internet.

Nobody I have ever worked with in an AOW course walks away being told they're an 'advanced' diver--they walk away being told they hold a second-level diving qualification that gives them the basis for expanding their experience and training in whatever direction they wish. I'm certain that I'm not alone among instructors in inculcating this attitude, but some people really do think they know more than they do, and these people aren't all scuba divers. I see it as a personality flaw rather than a flaw in the manner in which scuba training is designed.

I've had the misfortune of diving with people who believe they are 'advanced' divers because they have significant diving experience, and yet despite all this experience still can't dive in trim (therefore needing to be overweighted which in turn impacts their buoyancy). The most shocking example was a pair of BSAC divers with 700 + dives, wearing Buddy brand stab jackets, unaware that they were kicking the living hell out of our fan corals here. I've certainly dived with others who hold shiny-new AOW ratings who are just as dangerous to the corals, but I rather expect divers with back-to-back OW/AOW and on their 10th dive to be in a learning curve, and I had much higher expectations of these other folks. Happily, these encounters are not evidence of an overwhelming trend. Again, these are individual failings, not necessarily 'proof' that the BSAC system doesn't work or that OW/AOW as a combo class is a bad idea.

As to whether OW/AOW should be one course--I certainly encourage my own OW students to consider extending their training if they have the resources (generally time and money), which does have the effect of making it like one longer course.

 

[DevonDiver]

. If things are actually as described in the above 2 posts, should it not be just one course?

Its a modular course structure. As such, it needs to balanced against reasonable expectations of capability...it also requires some respect (by both the divers themselves AND dive operations) of the recommended limitations that go hand-in-hand with the modular qualifications.

If people have realistic expectations of what capabilities they can attain on a 4 dive training course, then the logic of swift/immediate progression onto AOW becomes clearer.

OW + AOW gives 9 dives of progressively developed training. The only difference between this and a 9-dive single ow course is that PADI give students the option to spread our their training to suit schedules/opportunities, rather than insist on a lengthy and expensive initial investment.

 

[Edward3c]

Georgie14

All I'd add is there are other agency options apart from PADI when you learn in Thailand.

I'm a bit biased, but recommend BSAC Thailand.

Regards