LDS Pressure

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LDS's would sell a lot more then 1% BP/W if they would actually, well, sell them. A shop I know sells Zeagle but didn't carry the express tech. If they had, I would have bought one from them. Instead I went to DRIS for their BP/W. Now the LDS is pushing ScubaPro XTech gear for 2x-3x the price. Oh and the dive boat that I frequent... I'd say 90% BP/W. We are all active divers and we know what we like.

I highly doubt the 1% figure is correct. It would make little sense for big companies like Scubapro, Oceanic, and Aqua-Lung to launch extensive product lines for 1% of the market. They would be be better off leaving it to small specialized companies like Dive Rite, Halcyon, DSS, Oxycheq, Zeagle, and HOG.

---------- Post Merged at 10:45 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 10:40 PM ----------

I also recently updated my gear. I had been using a Fenzy BC. I visited several local shops, but was not impressed by their attitudes to my 'old' gear. I bought a Genesis Recon through ebay because it came with doubles bands. The shoulder straps design allows me to control my tanks with one shoulder strap while dropping the tanks. I tried a Zeagle - I don't know which model - and I couldn't control the tanks unless wearing both shoulder straps.

I think Aqua-Lung still makes the Fenzy for the military market. So the technology is still usable.

---------- Post Merged at 10:52 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 10:40 PM ----------

Most dive shops don't carry that kind of gear anymore... Tech market small... Better off ordering online or finding a hollis, OMS or Dive Rite dealer to place an order. Ebay can be a life saver and a major pain... Good Luck!

PS. You can make your own back plate and many other things if you put the time in.

The tech market may be small but tech divers spend much more on gear than rec divers do. I read somewhere that they account for about half of all new equipment sales. Tech divers are not afraid to spend money and have multiples of every type of diving equipment.
 
Its kind of funny actually. Back in the 60's and early 70's when I started diving there was no such term as a "Technical Diver". You would hear the term professional diver( if someone actually paid you to do something for them). All we had back then were harnesses. BC's, if worn at all, were just simple donut vests blown up orally.
Now it seems one LDS will call me an old school vintage diver and the next one will say I am looking tech diving equipment. Were we tech divers back then and did'nt know it???

I do see the point of tech diving now as divers really can do much more now with newer equipment but I fail to see why its not considered recreation equipment as well. To be honest, as an older diver, when I look now at a guy wrapped in a jacket vest with every do-dad you can think of hanging on it he looks more technical than I do with a simple one piece harness/wing.

And yes, I have found the vintage double hose site, its great. I may look into that later. Would be fun to do some "vintage diving" later on when I get back into the swing of things again.

PS: Great site here. Lot of valuable information and good people here.
 
I do consider the "tech" dives I do to be recreational. The problem is much of what is considered to be recreational also includes bare bones education and too little focus on personal responsibility. So all the fancy gimmicks and doodads are pushed to try and minimize the amount of skill and education needed to dive.

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It"s strange how things have changed since the early 90's. When I started diving the main equipment manufacturers didn't make back inflation BC's. Now most do. They were considered unsafe as they didn't understand how to use them. The first time I put one on it felt as if I was free. What a feeling. I always hated the huggy BC's and jacket styles were worse. (For my build)

The industry has to keep inventing itself. How else can they keep selling us cool stuff? The newest rage is side mount. It is nice but I went the rebreather route with of course my BP/W from my single, then doubles, and of course sidemount. As a previous poster pointed out, BP/W can be very versatile and accommodating.

Safe Diving,

Dale
 
Two things, probably the mark-up is a lot better on the main brands like scubapro and aqualung. And sorry to say if they can sell you a jacket style and then next year you try a wing style and now want that they just got you for two purchases.

What is really missing here is that the bp/w manufactures should get together or on their own and have some demo days or something. I'm thinking of going dry and probably because I am going to go to a DUI demo day I will probably end up buying a DUI dry suit (if I like it and can afford it), why because I was able to try it. Knowing is half the battle.
 
I went to a halcyon demo,day last year ad ended up buying an infinity after trying it. My LDS just switched their rentals to bp/w and actually recommends those. I had other ideas when I bought my first bcd so it was not the shop, but rather my own ideas that led me to first get a jacket bcd.


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When I tell the shop I am looking for a backpack/wing set up they immediately go into a long spill on their jacket bc's and how they are so much better etc. I get such gobbley gook as you cant hardly get into a one piece harness or if you have any shoulder problems you can never get in it or out of it etc. I am a little old but not crippled. Most shops I visited either do not have backpack/wings in stock or have maybe one with a wing that is clearly made for doubles. Yea sure, I will take that big floppy thing with 50lbs of lift for my single tank set up.
Three thoughts:

1. You don't note where, in NC, you live but you mention 'most shops', suggesting a larger metropolitan area, so I presume Charlotte. I know there are a number of divers in that area who dive BP/W rigs for recreational diving, so I have to believe at least one / some shops are not quite as clueless as the ones that you have had to put up with so far. Don't give up the local market. (On the other hand, if your local market is the Raleigh area, PM me, because I know of it least one shop with BP/W options in stock, and with considerable BP/W expertise.)

2. As John points out, this topic is a frequently discussed one, and his assessment is accurate. Essentially, a lot of shop owners / managers / staff simply have no experience with BP/W rigs, and therefore don't stock them and really can't offer informed commentary. As a defensive measure, they may denigrate BP/W rigs as being complicated or uncomfortable, or describe them as exclusively 'tech gear', to suggest they are not appropriate for recreational divers (which is simply wrong on both counts). It reminds me of how we describe the primary cause of diver injuries from marine life - 'defensive reaction'. And, that is what a lot of the nonsense you get really is, a defensive reaction.

3. As for the 'WHY', I have the perspective that the issue starts with training. Because the vast majority of OW training takes place in jacket BCDs (and with regulators with standard, short(er) hoses and big consoles), new divers understandably begin their quest for personal gear by looking at what they are familiar with, and start out with their own notions of what they want (as chs8084 noted above). I can see why the training gear is what it is - it is cheaper and easier to use jackets (and regs with short hoses and big, bulky consoles, etc.) for large OW classes. When the new diver then returns to the LDS to buy a first set of gear, and asks to see a BCD like the one they trained in, the shop staff go along and don't try to talk them out of what they want (an approach which, arguably, has some merit). I am not saying I agree with this reality, or endorse it, only that it is what it is.

I had a two recent, and enlightening, experiences - regarding consumer choices of dive equipment - with the owner of the shop where I teach. He is a very experienced recreational and technical diver and instructor, wears a BP/W exclusively himself, recommends it to others, etc. and he and I dive together, a lot. The other day, I saw him assembling a set of gear, that included an Aqualung I3 (with pink trim, no less) and asked him what it was for. He said he was pulling gear to fulfill a telephone order that he had just taken from a shop customer. I made a (somewhat sarcastic) comment about the I3 lever, and he said, 'I know what you are thinking. But, we get quite a few requests for them, they are popular.' In the other case, I mentioned to him some months ago that I strongly discourage new divers buying gear from buying weight-integrated BCDs, and use a weight belt instead. His response was that, although he and I use a weight belt and he understands my view as an instructor and a diver, the reality is that the majority of BCDs being produced and distributed in the US today are weight-integrated, the majority of new divers buying their first set of gear seem to want weight integration, and that I am swimming against a commercial tide.
 
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The tech market may be small but tech divers spend much more on gear than rec divers do. I read somewhere that they account for about half of all new equipment sales. Tech divers are not afraid to spend money and have multiples of every type of diving equipment.

Thanks for clearing that up, when I said small, it by know means had any dollar amount attached to it. Tech divers do spend $$$$, they are just few and far between- so for most shops its not economical to tailor to anything but the recreational diver. You may find a thing or two but unlikely to find a full line of tech gear in any one store in most locations. Not saying that there isn't any, just few.
 
Thanks for clearing that up, when I said small, it by know means had any dollar amount attached to it. Tech divers do spend $$$$, they are just few and far between- so for most shops its not economical to tailor to anything but the recreational diver. You may find a thing or two but unlikely to find a full line of tech gear in any one store in most locations. Not saying that there isn't any, just few.

Also note that tech divers have usually been around scuba for some time and don't mess around with haggling. We are a cheap bunch and will go for the best deal. We usually rebuild our own gear and don't need the services a
rec diver needs from a shop. So while we buy a load of gear, we know the costs and won't spend a dime more. With all the gear we buy we can't afford to.

For a LDS to support tech diving solely would be tough. There are many more vacation divers that are taking a cruise in Hawaii and will buy $1200 in gear and $500 in classes for 5 dives in tropical waters.
 
Also note that tech divers have usually been around scuba for some time and don't mess around with haggling. We are a cheap bunch and will go for the best deal. We usually rebuild our own gear and don't need the services a
rec diver needs from a shop. So while we buy a load of gear, we know the costs and won't spend a dime more. With all the gear we buy we can't afford to.

For a LDS to support tech diving solely would be tough. There are many more vacation divers that are taking a cruise in Hawaii and will buy $1200 in gear and $500 in classes for 5 dives in tropical waters.

Ok, Ok, dont stereotype the tech divers as being cheap. Very knowledgeable in how to obtain gear for fair pricing a bit more accurate. Not willing to put up with bs sales associates also pretty accurate... I usually order online, I don't need the sales pitch or the tax lol. So I guess Im a little cheap in a sense, just not as you described... haha.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/swift/

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