LDS: Point of Pain

[JVM4.0]

I never would have thought I touched such a sensitive nerve when I posted the subject on the "Point of Pain" with LDS pricing. Like Larry, I'm in business, too, but the only thing I have to sell is time. Talk about a tough sell!

Also Like Larry, I pride myself in the fact that I have "clients" not "customers" or even "sales". I have found that the way to be most successful is not to SELL something, but to be a positive resource and create an environment in which my client wishes to buy. Larry has hit the nail on the head in more ways than even he might realize.

Now, after looking at all the posts regarding my original question, here's what I (PERSONALLY) have decided what works for me. Your mileage may vary:

* Give the LDS an opportunity to match pricing I have found elsewhere, and allow him to earn a fair profit.
* Do sufficient research on factory warranties to KNOW what I can expect in case of a claim. Become an informed purchaser, in other words.
* Continue to use my LDS as a resource to expand my knowledge.
* Faithfully continue to purchse items when it's expedient or necessary without complaint. In other words, don't be a whiner...........
* Offer my ideas to the LDS to help his business grow.
* Inform my LDS IN ADVANCE what my expectations are.
* Provide positive word-of-mouth advertising when appropriate.

There are a few more, but I think this should give you an idea.

BTW........I think I have found a new source of fun scuba stuff! Larry, expect a call!

Jim

 

[Derek S]

us dive operators are the ones who spend between $8000 and 25,000 on compressors, membrains for continious blend mixing, air storage, filters, replacement cartriges, oil, air tests, compressor maintenance in general. Now I remind you. This is for a ( I charge 5.00 for a tank of air.) I know allot of people are paying only 3.00 Do you look for the 2.00 tank fills?

$5 for a fill? I wish! I'll have you know Tony that I pay $12 for a hyperair fill. If I dare make the plunge for 32% EANx, it'll set me back $20. So don't tell me that my LDS isn't making money on each and every fill it sells. Unfortunately, they are one of 2 LDSes in the area, so they have a "stanglehold" on the area. They are able to charge whatever they want for air/gear/ect, and we either buy from them or make a drive somewhere else further, or buy online.

That being said, I like my LDS. I try to give them my patronage whenever possible, and I do enjoy going in there and 'chewing the fat'. I will not, however, pay $200 more for a dive computer when I can get it online from Scubatoys with a true manufacturer's warranty.

And as far as the stuggling LDS owner thing...I'm not denying that there are some out there that are barely eeking out a living, doing it for the love of the sport. My particular LDS owner has more than one residence, drives an H2 (among other vehicles), and is constantly going on dive vacations regularly that far exceed what I make in 2-3 month's time. So you can't tell me that they aren't making money.

When an LDS charges MSRP for a DUI drysuit and pays half that cost for it, forgive me if I don't shed a tear, especially when I've dropped over $3K in that shop over the last 6 months and there are no discounts no matter how much you spend.

LDS'es need to wake up and smell the coffee. They need us more than we need them.

To places like Scubatoys, I say bravo. They've managed to carve out a profit for themselves without managing to gouge their customers. Too bad my LDS wasn't a bit more like them....

 

[Derek S]

Yea... still is. He's 84 now, and still throws out his arm chair business advice all the time...

"You make money earning interest, not paying it."
"Cash is King"
"You get a thousand chances to underexpand your business... you only get to overexpand once."


and one of my favorites:

"If you can tell the difference between good scotch and bad scotch... there's a possiblilty you're drinking a bit too much scotch."

Great little gems of knowledge. My boss is a lover of scotch, I'll make sure to pass on that last quote to him tonight.

 

[redacted]

I was trying to make a point! I'm sure you are limited on diving knowledge. After all, us dive operators are the ones who spend between $8000 and 25,000 on compressors....

I too was trying to make a point. You ran off a customer rather than provide a service that would have put at least $50.00 on the black side of the books. And then you brag about it but also tell us about all your expenses that are your justification for higher prices. The shops I deal with welcomes the opportunity to compete with online Scuba reatailer including Leisurepro. No coersion, no threats, no bitterness. They don't spend 25K on a compressor when they can satisfy customers with a 10K rig and keep prices competetive. They understand that they may not always be able to compete but they are still happy to have the business I do bring them including referring new diver to shops that treat customers right. I found I do have something in common with these shop owners. We buy our cars at the same place. It's not always the home town dealer, but it's always the dealer with the best bottom line.

 

[redacted]

Also earlier in the thread I noticed one ownerwho refused servicing from an internet bought set of regs, and a reply from somebody flaminging him for doing so. I am very much in agreement with the LDS owner. If someone walks into my store who I know to have bought the gear on the net and walks in expecting a servicing, I'd do the exact same thing.

Wake uppeople, do you really think a dive center makes money on $8 airfills. Since when has it been wrong to work for a living and expect to come out at the end of the day ahead. Do all the people here that critisise LDS'S work in industries that don't put a markup on product or thier services. LDS come and go, and it's usually the people who expect to make a heap of money that are the first to go. Me I'm happy to pay my morgage, put food on the table, and dive everyday.

Watch out for your competitors. If one of them starts doing all the right things you are doing but also caters to the potential customers you choose to run off rather than service for a fee, he will be making the money you could have made.

 

[Squalus]

Out of all this mess and ramblings on here. What you have is Awesome LDS's that will cater to you as the customer and support your every need, then you have the not so good LDS's that give you half of what you think you deserve. I work part time for an LDS, the owner does not go on dive vacations all the time. He spends more time working for the customer and keeping them well informed and taken care of. His staff has a wide variety of certified instructors who will at anytime pick up the phone and answer any dive related question you might have. I think the experience that I have gained while working with all of them has been valuable and that no dollar amount could not compare to the wealth of knowledge gained. I prefer being able to see, touch and, sometimes use the equipment prior to purchase at times. There have been many times that I have a question on a particular piece of equipment that I might have purchased but, due to the caring attitude in the LDS. I was educated on why that something similar but cheaper could be used and bought there by the people who use it. Not to mention if a piece of must need equipment goes down, he has a loaner for you to use at no cost.

 

[matt_unique]

....

Also earlier in the thread I noticed one ownerwho refused servicing from an internet bought set of regs, and a reply from somebody flaminging him for doing so. I am very much in agreement with the LDS owner. If someone walks into my store who I know to have bought the gear on the net and walks in expecting a servicing, I'd do the exact same thing.

Wake uppeople, do you really think a dive center makes money on $8 airfills. Since when has it been wrong to work for a living and expect to come out at the end of the day ahead. Do all the people here that critisise LDS'S work in industries that don't put a markup on product or thier services. LDS come and go, and it's usually the people who expect to make a heap of money that are the first to go. Me I'm happy to pay my morgage, put food on the table, and dive everyday.

There are some business realities you seem to miss. Consumers are going to go for the best 'deal' period. Deal does not mean only price. If you over charge - you will loose customers to someone offering better prices. If you offer poor customer service - you will loose customers to someone who does it better. The exact same product for less money. I work hard for my money too and I'm not going to pay more because someone is a nice guy/gal. If you overcharge for gear but offer great customer service - you will get more service. If you overcharge then give attitude to people who chose to buy elsewhere - you will get zero business. Which would you prefer?

--Matt

 

[RiverRat]

Yea... still is. He's 84 now, and still throws out his arm chair business advice all the time...

"You make money earning interest, not paying it."
"Cash is King"
"You get a thousand chances to underexpand your business... you only get to overexpand once."


and one of my favorites:

"If you can tell the difference between good scotch and bad scotch... there's a possiblilty you're drinking a bit too much scotch."

Hey Larry, all good stuff. Thanks for taking a different approach and actually helping divers. The industry can learn much from you. Got any advice for sourcing product for someone starting up a scuba website?

 

[scubatoys]

Hey Larry, all good stuff. Thanks for taking a different approach and actually helping divers. The industry can learn much from you. Got any advice for sourcing product for someone starting up a scuba website?

Um... let me think... more competition for me... Hmmm... Uh Yea... I've got advice. Don't do it!

Really, no manufacturers want to sell to you unless you have brick and mortar along with on line. And the big problem you will run into, is starting up now without a pile of cash will be a difficult task. Your advertising, overhead, etc will be very high compared to the amout of product you sell starting out, and to be competitive, you have to cut prices prettly darn slim. If I bought gear at the same prices as other shops, I could not have my pricing and afford the new ferrari every 2 months (just kidding) But you get the idea. When I hit a manufacturer for 350 regs at a time, I get a bit better pricing than the dive shop that buys 3 this month.

So to source gear... open up a storefront retail shop, and ring the phone to the manufacturers, and ask them what their internet policies are so you can figure out what lines you want. Then in the beginning, I'd tell you to concentrate on only a few lines, so you don't spread your dollars too thin with a lot of vendors, so you can leverage better buying levels with the ones you do carry.

Either that, or blow it all off and just enjoy diving!