LDS Dive Trip

[Charlie59]

Maybe she should stay home. The visiting Dutch ladies do sunbathe topless there. Much easier to view when not trying to hide from your wife!

 

[DandyDon]

Maybe she should stay home. The visiting Dutch ladies do sunbathe topless there. Much easier to view when not trying to hide from your wife!

:lol:​

Okay, who wants to go in her place...? :lol2:

 

[rottielover]

BTW, I figured on 3/30 & 4/7 flight dates. Your Profile countdown has you leaving 27 days 2 hours.

Your dead-on... and my wife is about ready too make me a dead man after reading your post.

I think I'm going to fire up the printer and go in with some "ammo" tomorrow

 

[DandyDon]

I am sorry, but I didn't know she was reading along. Good luck..

Our lesson learned: Comparative shopping, details, negotiations, promises printed out, before checks are written.

 

[rottielover]

Good luck..

Thanks, I'm going to need it...

Anyone have any advice for my "negotiations" (bitc*&%^) at/with my lds?

 

[steelemagnolia6]

Well your LDS will more than likely win this one at this late date... you know what they always say "BUYER BEWARE".... ALWAYS ALWAYS ask questions before giving a dive shop or anyone a large amount of your money....

I personally don't do trips with a "LDS" the overhead is just to high in most cases...Toolbox and I, (as well as my dive addicted brothers) rely on good ole "book it yourself and save"!!! With a little advanced planning you can save yourself a great deal of money and being smacked in the back of the head by your spouse... I don't suggest "Do it yourself" for "rookies" at diving or traveling, but most folks that have some serious diving or traveling under their belt will most likely be a diver that wants to do their own thing....

Advanced planning pays quite well as Toolbox is currently in FLA (and I am here in cold, wet PA) the round ticket from Philly to Ft. Lauderdale was $123.00... and most dive trips are not last minute by any stretch of the imagination....

We did 5 days and 4 nights at Lake Erie last summer, 2 days of boat diving (Osprey Charters), site seeing, and a sunset cruise for less than a $1000.00, for both of us... and anyone that knows either Toolbox or myself will tell you that we are expensive toys to keep and dive addicts...

 

[oly5050user]

rottielover you are going in high season, so that would run more, but Oly has a point, maybe...?

Unlimited boat dives is unusual. Not listed and promised in writing is not good. Maybe free Nitrox is worth $100 if you get it. Not knowing what you bought 28 days before you leave...??

And it does sound high, but - I guess you've already paid for it. Hope you have Trip Ins, Dan Ins, Safety Sausage and Storm whistle for every diver. Have a fun trip.

Very true on the "yuppie" prices in Manhattan..look on some of their web sites and see what they charge for trips and instruction....usually $300-$500. more that what I get the same trip for at the same times,thru the same wholesaler..and I am located only 20/30 minutes from them in The Bronx..unlimited boat is unusual and that is what I have on my trip in April,was a free upgrade offered during the DEMA show,same as 50% off food/beverage at resort and free nitrox..

 

[Bob Vincent]

Compare apples to apples. Ask whats included and then compare. Usually for every 10 people the Dive Shop is able to send one Instructor are free. If its a little higher is it worth it? All I can say is it worth having someone with experience diving with the group maybe watching out for weaker divers? Someone to organize the group, which can be a major pain.

I guess before I became an Instructor I liked going on dive trips with the shop. Getting to know the people and making friends and I always had such a great time, I was one that lived by the more the merrier Lol.

 

[Wreck Wench]

Yeah, the Lds generally sends people to lead the group and handle details, but they generally get a nice commission on the packages.

Define nice? Dive shops work on 10% commission and that is only on the base package...no air, no taxes, etc.

How many of you would work on a 10% commission and out of that pay all your own expenses?

In the case of the dive industry, out of that 10% comes advertising the trip, having to come up with deposits in advance, bookkeeping costs and other direct trip related overhead, not to mention sending a trip leader who yes will go free if they book enough people. However free is also a relative word...the diving is free...sometimes the diving and hotel is free and sometimes the diving, hotel and meals are free if it was an all inclusive and it is always an all-inclusive option. (If the LDS added the AI option then their free spot does not include the AI...it was an add-on.) Then there is the cost of getting there. Airfare these days are not commissionable and even discounted air is relative to a specific market and usually only a small amount is available or the savings is only a small amount. Most shops will pass these savings onto you in order to get you to book the trip therefore making even less on the price of the trip.

They earn the commissions alright, as it's a working trip all the way, and some of those go to offset some of the expenses of those working - but they can't be charging $600 over. It's got to include air.

Yes in this case it did include something extra.. and yes $600 a head is quite a markup even for a great shop!

Now let's talk about those commissions. In reality...most of the comission earned goes to cover the shop's leader/trip guide's expenses. For example...lets say a trip costs $1000 of which say $700 of it is commissionable. That is $70 per head the shop is making gross. If they take 11 people (say 10 pd and 11th free in a good scenario or in many cases the 11th is free diving but you may need as many as 20 to get free hotel etc) then they will earn about enough to cover the cost of airfare to a Caribbean destination (usually $600-800 these days) in the best case scenario. That does not include meals, taxes, nor other expenses. In this example the shop is actually losing money on this trip if they committed to covering the entire expenses of the trip leader.

Some say you can just up the number of people on the trip to get a second free spot...and yes if you can sell that many spots that is a good option. However as you increase the number of people you need to increase the number of people helping to run the trip, otherwise you risk running a poor trip or burning your trip leader out.

Of course the shop can try to offset that by offering classes on the trip but there will be some fixed costs in that and you have to give some of that to the instructor and some of it to the shop. So now the trip leader/instructor is working twice as hard on the trip...teaching, kitten herding, problem resolution, entertaining and ensuring that YOU have a great experience.

Its no wonder that some shops do mark up the trip beyond what you might find on the internet...but the last time I checked the internet does not do a good job of resolving problems for you when they occur. Nor can it provide oversight to you while diving, provide safety in numbers and of course provide the fun that a group can provide! :shakehead

I do not agree with booking your own. A newbie will be much better off traveling & diving with the Lds group.

Don I totally agree with you on this one. They can better learn the ropes while in the safety of a group and under the oversight of an instructor or divemaster.

Remember...getting your open water cert is like getting your learner's permit...it still takes a lot of diving to actually be good at it!

 

[DandyDon]

Thanks for the discussion WW. I was once offered a 20% commission on the Meals Included Resort price for organizing a trip, but I declined it - discounting the cost of the trip to the members. That would have been over $3,000 in that case, and as that played out, I ended up doing a lot of work for free, but I did not want to mess with tranferring $30-40,000 to an out of US resort, liabilties, etc.

10% commissions are probly more the norm, and I suspect that most LDSs will use those to offset the expenses of the leaders, but the leaders will work on the trips, listen to whining, etc. I would not want the job - nor yours either, WW.

Yes in this case it probably includes something extra..$600 a head is quite a markup even for a great shop!

I guess you read over the part where we determined that his trip included Air fare - a good deal, really.

Rottie, on the other hand, may be paying too much for his trip, with the upgrades not yet proimised. His wife is sending him in today to learn more. :rofl: