LDS Closures

[MikeFerrara]

I've never suggested that you can, but that doesn't stop shops from trying.



Internal fills. Interesting concept. Fills for the classes that many are offering at below their costs already, now add "free" fills to the costs of the class.

Is there any real disagreement that we are losing LDS's because they aren't making any money? Providing the two things that cannot be purchased online, training and fills, below cost, in the hope of making up the loss in over priced gear just isn't working.

Internal vs incremental really doesn't matter, it just accounting semantics.

If the compressor is not a profit center, and training is sold at a loss, and competition for gear sales keeps margins and volumes below break even, we will have fewer dive shops, at least as we know them currently.

Tobin

I should have read your post close before I posted because I think I said the same thing.

Dive shops give away, the things that divers really need them for...training and gas. The other area they fail is knowledge. Lots of novice divers might benefit from having someone around who knows a little something about diving but you just don't find much expertise in dive shops.

Large retailers can just do a better job of retailing and the policies of the manufacturers work against the small retailer from the start.

 

[ReefHound]

Most of the items are marked up huge, but if they are small as $$ goes even if $1 is a 100% markup on a $1 online item, I still can't get it to my door for less than $7 shipped.

I can! I just bought an SK-7 bungee mount from TDL last week and was charged $2 for shipping. It arrived in an envelope marked First Class with $1.30 postage on it.

But I hear what you're saying. I buy little stuff from my LDS all the time and I'm not worried about folding the short dollar. I like the people there and I find myself browsing the store looking for something I can justify buying. But if I didn't like the people at the LDS and enjoy going there, I could buy even the little stuff online cheaper, on average. Worst case, maybe I'd have to plan better, consolidate small purchases to leverage shipping, or take advantage of those occasional "free shipping" offers.

 

[ReefHound]

Well, no. Maybe it depends on the area but around here, all the dive sites have compressors. The only tanks a shop needs to worry about filling for teaching are the ones they use in the pool. It would have been more cost effective for me to take those tanks someplace else to get them filled...having more tanks and getting them filled ahead of time would have been more cost effective than purchasing and maintaining a fill station.

Good point. It requires an amicable relationship with another source and makes you dependent but it can work. My shop just installed a nitrox compressor but has offered nitrox tank rentals for years by getting them filled off site.

So let me modify to say IF the shop must maintain a compressor then it is going to be a loss item and any retail sales are just an attempt to mitigate the losses. You also mentioned agency rules requiring a compressor, what if you have one but it's always broke.

But within your same point above is the reason shops just can't charge more for fills to get what they need to make air a profit center. Those divers can just get fills at the dive sites or the other sources you would have used.

Talk about interesting concepts. In my area, a dive shop owner recently bought an old sandpit and flooded it to make a large scuba park. He built a large new shop with onsite pool right next to the lake. It's a true one stop shop. This marriage between dive shop and dive site is not unique, I've seen it at a few locations, but I'm surprised at how rare it is.

 

[cool_hardware52]

Good point. It requires an amicable relationship with another source and makes you dependent but it can work. My shop just installed a nitrox compressor but has offered nitrox tank rentals for years by getting them filled off site.

So let me modify to say IF the shop must maintain a compressor then it is going to be a loss item and any retail sales are just an attempt to mitigate the losses. You also mentioned agency rules requiring a compressor, what if you have one but it's always broke.

If the compressor is always down, the agency should pull the shop's accreditation

But within your same point above is the reason shops just can't charge more for fills to get what they need to make air a profit center. Those divers can just get fills at the dive sites or the other sources you would have used.

Continued losses are unsustainable. After enough shops close you will either have larger "fill only" or "fill mostly" centers, or you just won't have commercial fills period.

Home fill stations, clubs, fire stations will "fill" some of this void.

Talk about interesting concepts. In my area, a dive shop owner recently bought an old sandpit and flooded it to make a large scuba park. He built a large new shop with onsite pool right next to the lake. It's a true one stop shop. This marriage between dive shop and dive site is not unique, I've seen it at a few locations, but I'm surprised at how rare it is.

Fill stations at dive sites will continue, if there are enough divers to make the "scuba park" concept work. These fill stations have a defacto monopoly, and the operations have other services to sell if the cost of fills exceeds the price of fills.

What's the price of a fill at Two Harbors on Catalina? Who cares? If fills are $5 or $10, or even $15, it's such a small part of the cost of just being there that's it's not worth worrying about.

It's much like the cost of Ski lift ticket. Aspen area is ~$80 / day. That's a lot money, but it's a fraction of the cost of ski vacation.

Tobin

 

[MikeFerrara]

Talk about interesting concepts. In my area, a dive shop owner recently bought an old sandpit and flooded it to make a large scuba park. He built a large new shop with onsite pool right next to the lake. It's a true one stop shop. This marriage between dive shop and dive site is not unique, I've seen it at a few locations, but I'm surprised at how rare it is.

There are quite a few oporations in the midwest that come pretty close. Even when I still had a fill station, I got fills on site when I could just to save hours on my machine.

When I closed the shop I moved the whole show to my garage. The system I had was really too small for a dive shop but it was way more than I needed at home. I offered the avid divers that I knew something that I would have expected them to jump on but there was very little interest. We can get air or recreational nitrox blends at the quarries but your pretty much out of luck getting trimix and decompression mixes for a weekend trip to the Missouri caves or deep wrecks on the Great Lakes. I had everything needed to mix anything that any diver would every need. I offered to give up a key for a flat anual fee so that group of divers could just help themselves at any time of any day OR night.

 

[Coalcracker]

When I closed the shop I moved the whole show to my garage. The system I had was really too small for a dive shop

Any Wonder why your store failed?

 

[Ice Mike]

Talk about interesting concepts. In my area, a dive shop owner recently bought an old sandpit and flooded it to make a large scuba park. He built a large new shop with onsite pool right next to the lake. It's a true one stop shop. This marriage between dive shop and dive site is not unique, I've seen it at a few locations, but I'm surprised at how rare it is.

My not so local dive shop runs on this concept.

It is located near a small fresh water lake.
To dive there you need to pay admission. (3$).
For that you get: parking, no car theft (which is worth a lot), possibilities to buy snacks/drinks, toilets, a dive shop right next to the dive location (handy when something breaks or was forgotten). They will look after your car keys when you are diving (handy when you dive wet).
They are expanding to include changing rooms with showers (handy in the winter)

In addition the shops cares for the lake, places underwater items of intrest (wrecks), gives training, supplies fills (air and mixes), and has a large inventory.
The shop also sells online and the mark up in the shop is minor compared to the internet prices.

So when I decided to buy a drysuit, I bought it at the shop, next week I am picking it up and the first thing I will do is make a dive in the lake. Anything not in order, straight back to the shop.

I believe the internet is finishing off the LDS's who don't have their act together. Which I think is a good thing.
But I believe this shop will be the last one standing. Purely because it realises it needs to be more than just a shop.

 

[vshearer]

My not so local dive shop runs on this concept....

It is located near a small fresh water lake.
.................

In addition the shops cares for the lake, places underwater items of intrest (wrecks), gives training,.............

All they need now is to stock the lake with the Loch Ness Monster.
:11:

 

[MikeFerrara]

Any Wonder why your store failed?

What are you talking about?

I'm not sure what it has to do with the conversation but I know exactly why I closed my shop. I didn't like running a dive shop.

 

[Doc Harry]

Due to LDS closures, I had to drive 8 hours to get my tanks filled at the closest LDS. They charged me $54 to fill my aluminum doubles with EAN32.

So I just bought a home compressor and cascade storage, $6,000 for the whole set-up.