LDS Closures

[SparticleBrane]

^ Agreed!

 

[fireflock]

Rich, I do appreciate the editing and I agree with you. I think what happens is that alot of dive shops including the one I work at are trying to change but some of us are just divers and need help communicating. I just hope it is not too late.

I hope so too. Best of luck to you and your shop.

Rich

 

[fireflock]

I don't have any sob stories about my LDS closing, but there are at least 3 of them near me that I wish would close. They have all changed owners and all of the new owners are terrible. Two of them went from great shops to worthless, one went from bad to really bad. Not a one of them will give you an air fill for under $12, yes AIR, and that's if you have a AL80 w/yoke. DIN, steel, 100cf tanks etc all cost you more. Nitrox, forget about it, the cheap shop wants $16, the high end is $24. Luckily I am moving soon and hopefully the new shop will be back to the $4 (or less) that I am used.

This isn't capitalism, that is outright theft, its companies like this that are causing the decline in this sport.

I'm not so sure that those prices are theft. I've had a couple of shop owners who I think are shooting straight tell me that they would need to charge around twice their current prices to break even on fills.

Obviously I don't know anything about your shops in particular, but I would prefer it if shops around here changed more for fills and stopped subsidizing fills with margins from gear sales. I think it would help to eliminate some of the weird shop loyalty expectations that seem to cause a lot of friction.

Rich

 

[jpsexton]

I'm not so sure that those prices are theft. I've had a couple of shop owners who I think are shooting straight tell me that they would need to charge around twice their current prices to break even on fills.

Obviously I don't know anything about your shops in particular, but I would prefer it if shops around here changed more for fills and stopped subsidizing fills with margins from gear sales. I think it would help to eliminate some of the weird shop loyalty expectations that seem to cause a lot of friction.

Rich

I wholeheartedly agree! If each segment of a dive shops business stood on it's own instead of giving some things away and making it up somewhere else it would change allot of things. Air fills and classes would go up in price but it would put an end to the false markup for gear. It might even up the quality of classes because if you have to charge enough to make money on them it would be kinda hard to justify a half arsed class. :11:

 

[redacted]

Yeah, but when shops start charging $10 or more for air, serious diverws are going to start forming independent clubs and getting their own compressors. Once that happens, the need for LDSs to support local diving drops dramatically.

 

[PhilEllis]

I'm not so sure that those prices are theft. I've had a couple of shop owners who I think are shooting straight tell me that they would need to charge around twice their current prices to break even on fills.

Obviously I don't know anything about your shops in particular, but I would prefer it if shops around here changed more for fills and stopped subsidizing fills with margins from gear sales. I think it would help to eliminate some of the weird shop loyalty expectations that seem to cause a lot of friction.

Rich

I can assure you that if most shops with MODERN, WELL MAINTAINED air systems would actually calculate the real cost, current air prices (even the high ones) would look like a very good deal. That being said, most products are not priced on a cost-plus basis, but instead are priced on a "market demand" basis. This is what keeps air fill cost low.....consumers don't think they are worth more.

Phil Ellis

 

[fireflock]

I agree that most customers would not like it.

It's interesting that the average struggling LDS sees the internet as the reason for their problems, when it's the other local shops in the area that keep them from charging more for things like fills and training.

Rich

 

[cool_hardware52]

I can assure you that if most shops with MODERN, WELL MAINTAINED air systems would actually calculate the real cost, current air prices (even the high ones) would look like a very good deal. That being said, most products are not priced on a cost-plus basis, but instead are priced on a "market demand" basis. This is what keeps air fill cost low.....consumers don't think they are worth more.

Phil Ellis

This very true. The annual cost of replacement filters and oil changes alone would surprise most divers. Add in hyper filters for OCA. Add in air analysis. Add in the cost of power.

Not hard to easily exceed the price paid by most divers, and that's before the labor cost of doing the fills, keeping the necessary records, other routine repairs and service, amortizing the cost of the investment, etc.

High volume fill operations can make a profit at $5-10 per tank, but not many fill stations see the amount of traffic that is required.

The current business model many LDS use, i.e. provide the two things you cannot buy online, training and fills well below cost, while trying to make up difference by selling exactly what is widely available on line, gear, explains why there are fewer LDS's each year.

Tobin

 

[Coalcracker]

The current business model many LDS use, i.e. provide the two things you cannot buy online, training and fills well below cost, while trying to make up difference by selling exactly what is widely available on line, gear, explains why there are fewer LDS's each year.Tobin

This is the best response so far on this thread.

I spent 500.00 for semi private classes, two students, our son and his friend, when he was certified in 1992. Some of the best money I ever spent. He had great instruction and is now a very good and safe diver. I just spent $32.00 to fill my gas tank.

The hard sell to buy at full retail pricing and the quilt trip if you do not buy from them puts many people off.

Tobin has it right.

 

[ReefHound]

This very true. The annual cost of replacement filters and oil changes alone would surprise most divers. Add in hyper filters for OCA. Add in air analysis. Add in the cost of power.

Not hard to easily exceed the price paid by most divers, and that's before the labor cost of doing the fills, keeping the necessary records, other routine repairs and service, amortizing the cost of the investment, etc.

High volume fill operations can make a profit at $5-10 per tank, but not many fill stations see the amount of traffic that is required.
Tobin

The volume is an important point because dive shops would have to operate and maintain a compressor *anyway* in order to provide for their classes and rent tanks and perform visuals. So even if not one diver purchased an air fill, the shop is still going to take the bite on investment and maintenance and labor. The incremental cost per fill is less than what the customer pays so they help mitigate the shop's sunk costs. It becomes a matter of volume. They can charge $15 but they won't be doing many extra fills so they charge what will yield them the most total revenue, not margin.