LDS Closures

[Papa_Bear]

Many people would not dive if it weren't for their LDS! They are great to have and you can't get air or nitrox over the internet! It should also be a place of continuing eduction, Local and exotic trips, tech, and repair! The LDS should be the "Cheers" in your life where everyone knows your name and you can have the social aspect of diving! Divers spend and hour or two a week underwater, but the dive life is much more, be apart of your LDS and contribute to the industry! We need more divers and dive heroes! We need a new Mike Nelson's! We can't get that in an industry "That has seen its hay day!" We get innovation from competition in the market place, but bigger markets produce more innovation! We as divers need to promote our sport and make it bigger so that an area can support more than one or two LDS! Otherwise it's going to be Wal-Mart or other big box store ruling what little equipment that small companies can produce! Lets create more American Jobs right here by supporting your LDS! Price is not always the deciding factor!

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Many people would not dive if it weren't for their LDS! They are great to have and you can't get air or nitrox over the internet! It should also be a place of continuing eduction, Local and exotic trips, tech, and repair! The LDS should be the "Cheers" in your life where everyone knows your name and you can have the social aspect of diving! Divers spend and hour or two a week underwater, but the dive life is much more, be apart of your LDS and contribute to the industry! We need more divers and dive heroes! We need a new Mike Nelson's! We can't get that in an industry "That has seen its hay day!" We get innovation from competition in the market place, but bigger markets produce more innovation! We as divers need to promote our sport and make it bigger so that an area can support more than one or two LDS! Otherwise it's going to be Wal-Mart or other big box store ruling what little equipment that small companies can produce! Lets create more American Jobs right here by supporting your LDS! Price is not always the deciding factor!

The problem with that model is that most LDS owners are not decent businesspeople. They treat their customers like crap ... or worse, like children ... and expect them to be "faithful" to the LDS, like it was a marriage rather than a business arrangement. The majority of LDS owners haven't a clue how to run a successful business, and fail to recognize that their competition isn't the shop down the street ... it's all the other recreational activities that compete for the discretionary dollars of their clients.

I can't think of a single other industry where the people who are the front line of the profession (i.e. the shop owners) are so classically unprofessional.

And I disagree that bigger markets produce more innovation ... not in our business. The real innovaters in diving are the smaller companies ... many of who are represented right here on ScubaBoard ... who make themselves available to the people who buy their products. You don't see anyone here from ScubaPro or Aqualung ... or any other major manufacturers. They insulate themselves from the public, and don't promote innovation or knowledge at all ... they're all about controlling market share, which rarely works to the benefit of the end-user.

Personally, I am not a big fan of the price-fixing approach that the major manufacturers promote. I would prefer seeing most LDS's replaced by online vendors who can sell equipment at competitive prices, and have scuba centers that sell only classes and fills.

To my concern, the current system relies not on educating their clientele, but on keeping them ignorant and reliant. I think it's a broken, outdated system ... and for the industry to truly grow it needs to be replaced by something that looks out for the interest of the people it serves ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[redacted]

The LDS should be the "Cheers" in your life where everyone knows your name and you can have the social aspect of diving!

Going with that thought, I wonder what it would take to get the local Bar & Grill to put in a compressor. The hours would be better than most LDSs, it would fill in the off peak periods, and it would give you something to do while you wait for a fill.

 

[ArcticDiver]

Bravo Bob!

I'd like to add a few supportive points from the perspective of a person who has to Batch Dive due to location and weather.

-You can't teach what you don't know. The overwhelming majority of scuba instructors I have encountered don't know very much, so they can't teach very much. This fundamental lack of knowledge and confidence results in anxiety that is passed on to their students.

-Many divers like the idea of scuba but are never brought to a level of comfort so they can enjoy the fact of scuba. They are safe within the environment they dive in. But they are not comfortable and enjoying themselves.

-It is continually amazing to me how many dive shops are, in fact, travel agencies with diving tacked on to provide a stream of travel customers.

 

[bumknee]

Personally, I am not a big fan of the price-fixing approach that the major manufacturers promote. I would prefer seeing most LDS's replaced by online vendors who can sell equipment at competitive prices, and have scuba centers that sell only classes and fills.

To my concern, the current system relies not on educating their clientele, but on keeping them ignorant and reliant. I think it's a broken, outdated system ... and for the industry to truly grow it needs to be replaced by something that looks out for the interest of the people it serves ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

The price fixing concept (MAP Pricing, Max Advertised Price) never has survived long term in any industry. The internet stores make it harder to maintain. High vloume internet retailers are buying the gear from LDS's who decide to break ranks.

The shops who provide real service, and aren't afraid to charge for it, will survive. There are customers who pay for service.

 

[redacted]

You don't see anyone here from ScubaPro or Aqualung ... or any other major manufacturers. They insulate themselves from the public, and don't promote innovation or knowledge at all ... they're all about controlling market share, which rarely works to the benefit of the end-user.

Personally, I am not a big fan of the price-fixing approach that the major manufacturers promote. I would prefer seeing most LDS's replaced by online vendors who can sell equipment at competitive prices, and have scuba centers that sell only classes and fills.

I suspect Oceanic and Mares (with Zeagle close behind) might take exception to that, but the 2 big guys are conspicuous in their absense. If they did show up, I suspect the beating they would take would be merciless.

I started this question because it appears to me that the only bright spot in scuba retail is the online vendors whose growth is at the expense of the LDSs that are not making the necessary business model adjustments. But if the loss of LDSs gets to the point where people dive less (or less people dive), then even the online guys may start to feel a pinch from their own success. Being the good businessmen they appear to be I hope they are already planning what they will do if necessary. I'm thinking either affiliated clubs or perhaps even franchises would work fine in areas that have a reasonable diver population but lack good LDS support.

 

[Papa_Bear]

I am sorry you have such crappy dive store! All the more to my point! The market place does that! Anyway you have no hope without a LDS, go in and make it better! Next most are owned by Instructors who hired themselves because there is so little money to be made! Its a way of life not a carer! Very few rich shop owners! As far as the Travel Part so what, they have to generate interest in diving to stay in business. They make so little on the actual trips its amazing! It is the gearing up to go where the money comes in! Trips you get a free room and your airfare! Wow! Big deal! Its good business to cater to your clients! The shop I use is the Cheers of Dive stores and its been there for 20 years! And the competition just keeps dying! So a good formula works! If anyone thinks it's easy go do it! If you think you have a good idea and want to market it, try it cost a lot of money to develop new SCUBA equipment and make sure your insurance is paid up!

 

[cool_hardware52]

Going with that thought, I wonder what it would take to get the local Bar & Grill to put in a compressor. The hours would be better than most LDSs, it would fill in the off peak periods, and it would give you something to do while you wait for a fill.

You may be on to something here.

Happy hour when fills are 1/2 price, Ladies Night, Wet Drysuit contests.....

Funnier things have worked.


Tobin

 

[JeffG]

Anyway you have no hope without a LDS

Sure I do. I have the internet and I can get a compressor. Don't need no stinking LDS.

 

[MikeFerrara]

Well, the manufacturers have tied service to retail sales but I think that is already changing.

Traditionally, the model has tied instruction to the shop somewhat but, with some luck, we'll eventually see some real educators who make education a profit center and really do it well.

As it is, the certification is access and people will purchase it for the access whether or not the training is any good...especially when it's cheap and quick. Once the training is seperated from the access, it will have to stand on it's own merit.

If the dive shops are going to survive, they are going to have to offer some real value. currently, I'd NEVER send anyone to a dive shop to learn to dive...those are, on average, demonstrably the worst classes. The dive shop is NOT the place to go for equipment and I certainly don't need to go there and pay for company. What's left?

Breathing gas? By some equipment online and you can get a compressor with the money you save.