LDS Bashers

[lamont]

Lamont summed up the reality rather well. (You didn't by chance train as an economist in a former life ?)

No, after the dot coms collapsed and I lost my job twice in 2001, I defensively educated myself to the point where I can actually understand Alan Greenspan without a translator.

I also agree that LDSes need to find some kind of value-add. Niches like DIR and technical diving can attract a reliable set of customers that come to you for the 'boutique' nature of your shop. Those consumers will also have more to spend, but at the same time they're a niche market and a given area cannot support too many of these boutiques.

Its particularly interesting to look at the shops that are niches of niches like the hard-core halcyon dealerships which don't carry the alternatives and don't market to other kinds of divers. That is getting so 'boutique' that the continental USA starts to look like a fairly small market.

Another way to make money would be to setup a very 'club-like' atmosphere in the dive shop and setup a lot of trips and club dives and get people sucked into the LDS on a frequent basis. If people can get something socially out of the LDS, then that is meeting another 'boutique' need.

 

[xiSkiGuy]

I get the feeling that a lot of you are talking out of your about what a dealer's "cost" and "markup" are. You've probably never worked in retail, much less managed a store and paid the bills. You most certainly haven't tried to make a living selling a niche market item at the 15% markup you think would be "acceptable". The high-volume-inventory-turning model of a Lowes or Wal-Mart isn't really applicable for most niche Scuba retailers. Most everyone is a potential Wal-Mart customer. A very small % of the population dives. I certainly wouldn't want specialty stores of any kind (be they ski, scuba, whatever) going the way of Wal-Mart. Have you ever tried asking for an informed opinion about a product from a Wal-Mart employee?

Like waterdawg mentioned earlier, I don't care if you shop online. Just don't waste an hour of my time (often to the detriment of other customers) getting opinions and fitted into gear and then turn around and buy it online.

 

[Vtdiver2]

The dealer margin at GM, used to be 16% if they sold at MSRP. If a global giant like GM could make marginal products, and give dealers 16% of the pie, and have dealers not only survive but thrive, then something is GROSSLY wrong in the dive industry if retaliers cannot survive with the 50-100% profits they are currently getting.

But you have forgotten one thing......16% of a $20,000 car is $3200. 100% markup on a $300 reg is $300. A GM dealership sells at least a car a day, so without doing anything else, they rake in at least $96000 a month. Most LDSs can't match a car dealership in sales, but if they sell one reg a week, they make $1200 a month. Big difference, and even though it's 100% markup, it's still hard to pay all the bills off of it.
Do I think the system is flawed? YES. But the bottomline is, if you don't live in a metropolitan area where there is enough divers to support multiple dive shops, the LDS is your diving lifeblood, and the opposite is true also. You, as a diver are their lifeblood. I lived in a rural area of Vermont back in the 90's, where my LDS had a clientele of about 30 divers. Yes, 30 divers. And yes, he advertised etc, but that's about all that were interested. The LDS was little more than a garage stall, it was only open when he wasn't working his other full time job, he filled tanks for the local volunteer fire dept to help pay off his compressor, and he had little to no stock, and ordered in almost everything we wanted to buy. But, we were loyal to each other, and it worked. Yes, we had to pay a little extra, but our other option was to drive 2 hours to the next closest dive shop, or buy online. Either of those options put him closer to closing the doors, eliminating our fill station. I gladly paid that little extra, and enjoyed diving with him til I moved to another part of the state. Many people across the country are still in that situation. We need each other. Take the time to get to know the people in your LDS. I think once you do, you'll see most aren't living like kings, and are struggling to make ends meet also.
Just my 2psi,
C-Dawg

 

[Lisa0825]

(snip)

Another way to make money would be to setup a very 'club-like' atmosphere in the dive shop and setup a lot of trips and club dives and get people sucked into the LDS on a frequent basis. If people can get something socially out of the LDS, then that is meeting another 'boutique' need.

I got on a local shop's email list, and they seem to be doing this. I keep getting emails about parties, trips, local dives, etc. They also sent out an email about coming in to try out some new equipment that just came out. They combined aspects of the dive shop with the dive club.

 

[CBulla]

It was mentioned earlier about this thread to whine and cheeze... no, not really but probably to non-diving as its about shops and not basic scuba stuff... sooo yes, a mod is reading/watching. I'll decide on that later...

I've read every post in this thread and one thing kept running through my head, something and old Marine told me a looong time ago:

Adapt and overcome!

If a shop cannot adapt to the changing market place it will continue to struggle until it becomes something akin to a fill station with some spare parts for repairs on the fly. Around here we have very little diving and at least a dozen dive shops. I don't see them as 'struggling', but I don't buy all my gear at them either. Its just not feasible economically nor do they carry all of the gear I want to use, thus I support small independent gear makers or some other DIY alternative (I love to tinker).

None of the shops here have a particularly knowledgeable staff (except on the gear they personally use) nor do they serve coffee. I have got to find one of those! In fact, I want a shop like Wayward Son visits!!!

Overcome... Overcome that mental block that the 'net is out to crush the LDS. Any modern LDS is figuring this out and making the changes to overcome this.

 

[piikki]

See, there is somebody else that does support their LDS but also realizes what the LDSs need to. "If nothing else our customers have to support us so that they will have a place to get air fills" is BS. Without LDSs there are many ways to still get air fills by doing such things as setting up a dive club and buying a compressor or even starting an air fill business out of your garage. Fills might cost a little more but you would still be able to get them.

But who'd you sue when you felt off the next day??? Mikey the Sipper from the club? How would that work with Americans?

 

[darylm74]

Wow, I wish everyone would dive!

Then all the people that make dive gear, sell it, repair it, fill it, and teach & take customers diving, could make a fair living on slim margins, just like all the mass merchants.

But that sure ain't going to happen, is it?

Chad

If diving was more affordable, more people would dive. When computers came out, few people had them. Now that the price has dropped, everyone owns a computer. This is the way of several products out on the markets (MP3 players, stereos, TV's etc.) You think that the dive industry would follow the precedence set by the rest of the world.

 

[Vtdiver2]

At alot of the local shops here their big money maker is the ow and aow certs

Who told you that?!? I KNOW that most LDS are doing OW and AOW for little over cost, hoping to make money selling a diving package to the newly certified diver.
I my area, OW costs about $275. By the time you buy books from PADI, rent the pool for the pool sessions, and outfit the students in rental gear ( which comes with the price) there isn't much profit.
C-Dawg

 

[xiSkiGuy]

But you have forgotten one thing......16% of a $20,000 car is $3200. 100% markup on a $300 reg is $300. A GM dealership sells at least a car a day, so without doing anything else, they rake in at least $96000 a month. Most LDSs can't match a car dealership in sales, but if they sell one reg a week, they make $1200 a month. Big difference, and even though it's 100% markup, it's still hard to pay all the bills off of it.

Yep.

 

[xiSkiGuy]

Who told you that?!? I KNOW that most LDS are doing OW and AOW for little over cost, hoping to make money selling a diving package to the newly certified diver.
I my area, OW costs about $275. By the time you buy books from PADI, rent the pool for the pool sessions, and outfit the students in rental gear ( which comes with the price) there isn't much profit.
C-Dawg

Certs are just a loss-leader to enlarge the pool of potential customers. . .