LDS Bashers

[rockjock3]

I believe people should shop where they want but dont burden the diveshops asking them for advice, then turn around and buy online. If you have questions about diving, call LeisurePro. Or if the online IS actually a LDS (to some one) ask them.

See, I also agree with that. I don't believe people should use their LDS as a fitting room. Do realize that the MSRP for most items already accounts for a large markup over what the retailer pays for the item. My point to this is if you can buy a reg and sell it at MSRP of say $300 but I can find the same reg from the same source (not grey market) for $200 then trust me, the LDS didn't pay more for that reg from the same manufacurer than LeisurePro, ScubaToys, etc. did.

Now you take a site that sells that reg for $100 (because their regs fell off the back of a truck) I understand that. But I still have seen cases of and believe that most of the markups are just rediculous.

Now for the area where there might only be 50 divers in the whole area I can understand that and if they divers in that area figure it is in their best interest to support that LDS for their goals then all the better. But in areas that there are many more than 50 divers the LDSs need to wake up and either smell their possible extinction or continue to move towards it.

 

[rockjock3]

Economics 101. If there is a market, someone will serve it. For local divers, It maybe that a scuba club will form and buy a compressor. For resorts...well, they will have their own compressor so they couldn't care less if LDS's bit the dust.

There are more Scuba compressors in Garages in Edmonton, than the number of dive stores.

See, there is somebody else that does support their LDS but also realizes what the LDSs need to. "If nothing else our customers have to support us so that they will have a place to get air fills" is BS. Without LDSs there are many ways to still get air fills by doing such things as setting up a dive club and buying a compressor or even starting an air fill business out of your garage. Fills might cost a little more but you would still be able to get them.

 

[DPJ]

So wouldnt it be wonderful all you LDS bashers that next time you arrive at your exotic destination with all your cheapskate gear you got on the internet you found to your horros there were NO Dive centers !!!!!= No Diving !!!!! , hey try going online to order a days diving.

I usually stay out of these discussions, but the boat I use in Ft Lauderdale, sells boat rides and doesn't even have a shop.

The boat I used in the Caymans and Belize, have very small shops to provide gear rentals, but and no way are earning their bread and butter on gear sales.

None of these shops care where I bought my gear or who serviced it.

 

[rockjock3]

Lamont summed up the reality rather well. (You didn't by chance train as an economist in a former life ?)

You are going to see the online high volume LDS model and the local high service model evolve. This is just the same model that travel agents are heading down, except with a 5+ year head start. Most LDS wil likely go for the high service model or close down as most will not have the inclination or expertise to setup a workable online retail presence.

Here, here. Yes, a very excellent and alternate way of saying what many of us have been saying as well. Thanks to lamont for his explanation. Now hopefully many of the (computer monotone voice) "I will follow my LDS till my death or theirs" people will understand and be able to pass this concept onto their LDS.

 

[Web Monkey]

Wayne to get what I need, or use the internet. I use the LDS's for important equipment like regs or custom suits so I have a place to get repaired, measured, or just complain to. Fortunately, because of my connections with area law enforcement agencies and the county search and recovery team, I can get my air through the local fire depts., however, I'm always wondering how well those guys take care of those compressors!!

That's an excellent question.

The level of CO and other contaminants that you would hardly notice and that doesn't bother the firefighters can be a huge problem when breathing at several ATM.

Terry

 

[JRScuba]

Here's the answer to the authors complaining.

http://www.diveriteexpress.com/gas/etherfill.shtml


Hot off the internet!!!!!!

 

[Derek S]

As GM and Ford scratch their heads and try to figure out why they are being outsold in their own country by upstarts who have neither the economy of scale, or price competitiveness, people like Honda, Subaru, and even BMW, are cleaning thier clocks. When your business relies on the ignorance of the customer, and unreasonably high profit margins, to keep the door open, it's only going to be a matter of time before your luck runs out.

That's also because, on the whole, those manufacturers make a better product than either Ford or GM does.

Sorry, it's true. I love my Mustangs, but......

 

[devolution365]

Here's the answer to the authors complaining.

http://www.diveriteexpress.com/gas/etherfill.shtml

Hot off the internet!!!!!!

That's hilarious!

 

[piikki]

The thing is that depending on where the shop is located, there might only be 50 or so divers in that area, and not all of them will purchase a new reg/BC every year.

Some times you need to make enough profit on thoses 10 items to ensure you can pay rent, employees, insurance, compressor maintenance,buy O2 and He, utilities, pay shipping on new items etc. But stilll the prices usually arent market any higher than MSRP and many times 10% lower.

I seem to come from an area that has about that number of divers... or about that many using local shops... Why do I need to be punished - I WANT a local shop!

But the real reason I had to quote this post...

If you have questions about diving, call LeisurePro.

Hee-e

 

[oscar_2424]

Having lurked around the site for the past few months, I continue to be amazed at the absolute ignorance in economic principles of the LDS bashers on this site.

Let me see if I have this correct - a store owner who has retail rent, retail commercial insurance, employee wages, taxes and benefits, retail inventory carrying costs should sell his products for the lowest price available on the internet.

And you, Mr. internet only shopper, should be able to waste his employees' time and use his store to see-touch-feel the products before you order on-line. In essence he is the free showroom for the internet providers.

Now, you economic geniuses, help me with the math - if I have retail overhead, and sell at a margin that is too low to substain my overhead expenses, I guess I'll just lose money to stay open for your window shopping convenience.

Don't blame your LDS for trying -heaven forbid- "TO MAKE ENOUGH OF A PROFIT TO MAKE A DECENT LIVING". I guess it is ok for you to make a good wage/salary that allows you extra money to buy diving equipment and support your diving expenses, but it is not ok for the LDS owner or employees to be able to pay rent/food/utilities and maybe have a little bit extra to spend?

Those of you who indicate that you got "ripped off" by your LDS - Did you bother to ask if they offer a discount for buying a substantial amount of items, or an expensive item? If you didn't, then shame on you.

I know that there are some "slam em" LDS shops out there, but the vast majority that I have shopped at are owned by diving enthusiasts, who quite frankly, are sacrificing their optimum earning potential by continuing to operate a retail storefront.

Those of you on this site constantly preaching to newbies and others to abandon the LDS in favor of your "great internet buying experience" are doing a disservice to all divers. Oh, and I'm sure, because of your total disdain for the LDS, that you send your tank via UPS to your "amazing internet dive speciallist" for filling. Oh, what's that you say Mr. Genius - you fill your tanks at the LDS, geeze thanks for paying the bills.

When the LDS's are out of business, I'll make sure to come over to your house and use your $20,000 compressor. Oh, and make sure that you have a nitrox system as well. And don't expect me to pay for the maintenance, repair and eventual replacement cost. Oh, and please make sure you are a certified diving instructor and are willing to OW certify all the new divers in your area at a break even cost or even a small loss (by the way I want to see your $2,000,000 liability policy before you train me).

Next time you read about more companies closing down plants/offices to open in Mexico, India, Pakistan etc. realize that you - even in you infantile "I have to pay the cheapest amount for everything" mentality, are fueling offshoring.

And perhaps, your employer will come to you and tell you that you can either cut your wages/salary by 40% or lose your job, because "everyone has become so cheap that we can no longer make a profit".

Am I an LDS owner, no. Just someone schooled enough in economics to understand the principles behind retail economics, and smart enough to realize that WITHOUT THE LDS, DIVING IS A DYING SPORT (I'm sure that so many of our newbies were inspired to begin diving by surfing the internet, seeing a dive site, and taking their online OW certification course).

There is a vast difference between being a smart buyer, and being cheap.

AMEN