Last month!

[komi hunter]

Why should a seller not pass on the PayPal fees to the buyer? That is standard practice.

the seller fees are just that fees that are charged to the seller NOT the buyer.

 

[Dan Gibson]

That is called the cost of doing business. It's always passed on to the consumer whether people like it or not. The seller generally builds this into the price or tacks in on after the sale but informs the buyer ahead of time they will be paying costs. Ever wonder why the cash price is lower? This would be one of those reasons.

Next thing you know, people are going to start complaining that the seller charges for shipping and handling.

the seller fees are just that fees that are charged to the seller NOT the buyer.

 

[komi hunter]

That is called the cost of doing business. It's always passed on to the consumer whether people like it or not. The seller generally builds this into the price or tacks in on after the sale but informs the buyer ahead of time they will be paying costs. Ever wonder why the cash price is lower? This would be one of those reasons.

Next thing you know, people are going to start complaining that the seller charges for shipping and handling.

Sometimes I already do complain about them!! $22 dollars is alittle much for an envelope and $4 postage!!! If a seller wants to charge me for his fees I won't buy from him. That is part of his cost for being a seller.

 

[Dan Gibson]

I realize this thread is getting off topic quite a bit, but just to respond to your post:

You certainly reserve the right not to purchase from anyone you chose, but how would you know if the cost hasn't already been built into the minimum price that person will sell the item? The $22 example is probably an extreme and not really the best example of typical practices. These things may be hidden costs, but they are there and there is no way a buyer can be certain in most cases.

Make no mistake, the cost associated with being a seller is passed on to the consumer. That is how business stays in business. Business is in business to make money, not lose money or just to provide people a place to work or to provide something people can purchase. If there is not profit, what would be the incentive to be in business?

Sometimes I already do complain about them!! $22 dollars is alittle much for an envelope and $4 postage!!! If a seller wants to charge me for his fees I won't buy from him. That is part of his cost for being a seller.

 

[komi hunter]

I understand you are going to make some money on it but to pass on all your cost to the buyer on something you already have and charge an unrealistic amount is a bad thing. I have bought several Items from ebay and most have not been bad but I have seen some sellers that go to an extreme. If you are chargeing a buyer your seller fees then it should be stated up front.

 

[Dan Gibson]

I agree. Sometimes it's a matter of just recoving costs, not making money. If I sell something, I always make sure right up front the person knows what fees are expected to be covered.

I understand you are going to make some money on it but to pass on all your cost to the buyer on something you already have and charge an unrealistic amount is a bad thing. I have bought several Items from ebay and most have not been bad but I have seen some sellers that go to an extreme. If you are chargeing a buyer your seller fees then it should be stated up front.

 

[crpntr133]

Dan it really wasn't a complaint. Jody's statement made no sense to me of why he was wanting to charge 3% for a CASH Paypal transfer. I have the free Paypal account and there is no charge, as far as I know, for a CASH transfer. Credit card , yes, that is why I always say no credit cards. It really made no difference since the suit was already gone and I think that both Jody and I pretty much knew that. If I wanted the suit and piece of mind I would have paid Jody the 3%.
The only reason that I wanted Paypal or money order was to cover my own butt in case something went wrong. I felt that a suit that I was told was worth $2,000 and had two dives on it and was being sold for $1,000 was a little bit too good to be true. If it wasn't then great, everybody was happy. Since none of us know each other it is better to error to the cautious side, I think both of us were doing that.
I really hate to think that all the BS that has been stirred could have been avoided all together but every email I got back I was told , in one form or another, that I didn't know what I was talking about. The really sad part of it is that everything that I told Jody about pricing came from either 5thD or off the internet. That stemmed my bull statement above. I am sure that I made a few statements that he wasn't happy about either but I didn't do it intentionally.
If everyone wishes to wear their feelings on the outside of their dry suit then so be it but this diver is swimming on.

BTW, I have a two NEW suits coming. I ended up finding something else from someplace other than Scubatoys and couldn't make up my mind. So the guy is sending me both suits to try on and then I can make my decision. One of them is a DUI TLS350 and it will cost me $1,500 if I keep it. I know the price is wrong I can't be getting it for that price and I am totally stupid. The guy IS a authorized dealer but is going out of business so he wants to get rid of them. I think it is going to be big but he wanted to send it anyway.

Peace

 

[Dan Gibson]

Wally,

This thread is getting way offf topic, but I will address a couple of items in the hopes that some will learn from it.

My post intially came from the post about not paying for a seller's fees. It's one of those very misunderstood business practices. It's a pet peeve of mine just like many of the LDS arguments. Most of the statements about LDS gouging are not really true. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, just most of the accusations are false. It's usually a matter of the person making the statement not having the necessary facts.

Just to be clear, sellers who have Premier/Business accounts (i.e. they can except credit cards) are charged 2.9% + $ 0.30 per transaction. No matter how one sends money to the seller (i.e. checking or cc), the seller is charged the same upon withdrawl. I don't believe there is a distinction. Why would one want this type of account? Most may not send large enough sums in a single transaction or do that much business. I myself signed up for this since I was limited in the amount I could send at a given time. This may have changed over the years, so the $300 limit that was initially placed on my account several years ago may no longer apply. I certainly needed this type of account to purchase an item that was approaching $3000 a couple of years ago.

Your suggestion to use PayPal to cover yourself (i.e. piece of mind) on a high priced item seems like it would have been a prudent step on the buyers part.

As to the rest of the email, I'm not sure exactly what the problem is here, but the tone in the later portion of your email seems to indicates some hostility. I hope I am ready this wrong. Just remember, I never brought up a particular name or potential sale. I won't go into actual email particulars about your drysuit deal that fell through unless for some reason you really wish to hash it out in public. That wouldn't be right. What I can do is try to inform people so they can make wise decisions in the future. No one wants to spend money and find out later it was a waste. Been there, done that. It's no fun.

Concerning the suit, I do know the facts about this particular suit even more than Mark at 5thD because I got the same suit through AG (It's AG's spec suit he developed with DC) when he still owned the 5thD store and actually got my suit on time. The other guy had to deal with Mark as he took over the store and pretty much screwed up at every oppotunity he could despite the fact the guy was measured just minutes after me by AG while in San Diego in August '03. The suit was ordered within a few days of mine. Piece of advice, Mark would not be considered a reliable source by most people. Please visit the decostop or ask a couple of people on this board about how he runs a business. Another small piece of advice, comparing the suit for sale with other suits you may have mentioned is comparing apples and oranges. These suits are more expensive for a reason, all the way down to the zipper selection. The price when we ordered them was $1600 without P-valve. a couple of months later, the price went up to $1800. I also know the latest 5thD pockets are considered a POS by many. They seem to fall apart. Take a look over on the Decostop. I believe that is where the complaints have been posted. And yes, despite the deal sounding to good to be true, the suit only had two dives on it, but that isn't really important at this point.

As is always the case, there are always exceptions. You can find a really good deal if a seller is motivated. You might be getting the deal of a lifetime with the DUI suit you mentioned. That wouldn't likley be the case for almost any other suit that was being sold unless the suit is old and the shop wanted to get it off the shelf. Even the leftovers on the DUI site don't run that low these days. I would be willing to bet the suit you mention is likely one of the newer stock suits. I'm not going to knock the newer suits, but they are not in the same leauge as the 350TLS with the CLX "style" overlay. It's not actually CLX material. The overlay costs more and prevents chafing from harness material. It's well worth the added price. The DC Ultraflex is a considerably tougher than the newer stock 350s that don't have the overlay, yet one doesn't loose mobility. These suits are not good comparisons because they are not in the same category.

I hope you find the suit you like. It really does suck to have an ill fitting drysuit, one that leaks, or one that just plain limits mobility. I used to own a Whites Polarflex. It was my first suit. You couldn't pay me to get into one of those things anymore. My DUI 350TLS (cave cut) and Diving Concepts (AG spec Ultraflex) were both great investments and have made diving that much more fun. They cost a litttle more, but it was well worth it. Just think, I could probably have only purchased the two good drysuits and I would have enough money left over for half the cost of a nice scooter. That Whites POS cost me about $1500 back in 2000.

Dan it really wasn't a complaint. Jody's statement made no sense to me of why he was wanting to charge 3% for a CASH Paypal transfer. I have the free Paypal account and there is no charge, as far as I know, for a CASH transfer. Credit card , yes, that is why I always say no credit cards. It really made no difference since the suit was already gone and I think that both Jody and I pretty much knew that. If I wanted the suit and piece of mind I would have paid Jody the 3%.
The only reason that I wanted Paypal or money order was to cover my own butt in case something went wrong. I felt that a suit that I was told was worth $2,000 and had two dives on it and was being sold for $1,000 was a little bit too good to be true. If it wasn't then great, everybody was happy. Since none of us know each other it is better to error to the cautious side, I think both of us were doing that.
I really hate to think that all the BS that has been stirred could have been avoided all together but every email I got back I was told , in one form or another, that I didn't know what I was talking about. The really sad part of it is that everything that I told Jody about pricing came from either 5thD or off the internet. That stemmed my bull statement above. I am sure that I made a few statements that he wasn't happy about either but I didn't do it intentionally.
If everyone wishes to wear their feelings on the outside of their dry suit then so be it but this diver is swimming on.

BTW, I have a two NEW suits coming. I ended up finding something else from someplace other than Scubatoys and couldn't make up my mind. So the guy is sending me both suits to try on and then I can make my decision. One of them is a DUI TLS350 and it will cost me $1,500 if I keep it. I know the price is wrong I can't be getting it for that price and I am totally stupid. The guy IS a authorized dealer but is going out of business so he wants to get rid of them. I think it is going to be big but he wanted to send it anyway.

Dan

Peace

 

[jrudicel]

Dan it really wasn't a complaint. Jody's statement made no sense to me of why he was wanting to charge 3% for a CASH Paypal transfer. I have the free Paypal account and there is no charge, as far as I know, for a CASH transfer. Credit card , yes, that is why I always say no credit cards. It really made no difference since the suit was already gone and I think that both Jody and I pretty much knew that. If I wanted the suit and piece of mind I would have paid Jody the 3%.
The only reason that I wanted Paypal or money order was to cover my own butt in case something went wrong. I felt that a suit that I was told was worth $2,000 and had two dives on it and was being sold for $1,000 was a little bit too good to be true. If it wasn't then great, everybody was happy. Since none of us know each other it is better to error to the cautious side, I think both of us were doing that.
I really hate to think that all the BS that has been stirred could have been avoided all together but every email I got back I was told , in one form or another, that I didn't know what I was talking about. The really sad part of it is that everything that I told Jody about pricing came from either 5thD or off the internet. That stemmed my bull statement above. I am sure that I made a few statements that he wasn't happy about either but I didn't do it intentionally.
If everyone wishes to wear their feelings on the outside of their dry suit then so be it but this diver is swimming on.

BTW, I have a two NEW suits coming. I ended up finding something else from someplace other than Scubatoys and couldn't make up my mind. So the guy is sending me both suits to try on and then I can make my decision. One of them is a DUI TLS350 and it will cost me $1,500 if I keep it. I know the price is wrong I can't be getting it for that price and I am totally stupid. The guy IS a authorized dealer but is going out of business so he wants to get rid of them. I think it is going to be big but he wanted to send it anyway.

Peace

After reading this,I have to clarify a few things. I will keep to factual info and keep my opinions out of it. On the paypal remark regarding the fees... this was a cash deal we were talking about. The price was the price etc. Wally mentioned he would feel better with a guarantee like through paypal. I said, Well, I can do paypal but you would have to pay the fees. Plain and simple. The suit wasnt mine, and it originally was a cash deal. I cannot eat 3% on a 1000.00 that isnt mine. I was getting 0 out of the suit deal, just helping out a friend. On most things I sell for myself, I add that into the original price as cost of doing business..if someone asks about cash or a better deal, then i can drop the price accordingly. As far as the fee, if you have a plain jane paypal account for personal use, its free to send and receive money. If you raise your limits and are able to take credit cards..they move you into a primier account and they dock you roughly 3% to receive money only. Thats in the US. I just sold a TLS350 for 1150.00 to a guy in Canada and it hit me 45.00 roughly for a fee because it was another country. The fee schedule on paypal is here http://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_display-fees-outside . Enough said on that. I wasnt trying to rip anyone on the fees, and if it was my suit, I could have done more, but since it wasnt, I couldnt.
As far as telling you you didnt know what you were talking about.. What I meant, and tried to say is that with your inexperience I dont think you are comparing apples to apples on suits. You can buy 2 different DUI TLS350's for example and be 1000.00 different in price based on features etc. Trust me, I know. You can buy a stock DUi with rockboots for around 1400.00 on the net, but I ordered a custom one, with pockets, plus pee valve, plus the CLX overlay, plus the turbo soles and my bill was like 2350.00 for the suit alone minus my discount. Big difference. I never doubted you could find a DUi for 1400.00 or a DC cheaper than 2000.00 BUT, order one that fits to your measurements, has pockets installed at factory, has pee valve installed at factory, etc and its a whole new ballgame. that was my point when you said the suit wasnt worth but 800.00.
Call Divetank.com and you can get a Bare for around 1000.00-1100.00 and a DUI for around 1400.00 on the net if you havent already. Its the cut, features etc that add to the price. For a new diver, these things mean nothing probably, later on they will have a different value. And if you get lucky in a stock suit, great!
This whole deal was just a big cluster for both of us and probably better in the long run. I dont wear my feelings on the outside of the drysuit either. It would take alot more than this to get at me, especially whenthe suit wsnt mine in the first place.
Good luck with the suits. If the DUI works, it will be your best bet over a Bare for instance, but beware of the new QuickZip zipper. They have a tendancy to not stay shut and leak. Been there and done that. Old style zipper if theres a choice. Theres mention of it on TDS as well. Just a friendly pointer to look out for. Later.

 

[crpntr133]

Thanks for the input guys. After reading the two above posts a lot of things have now been cleared up and I really feel better about this whole thing. I NOW understand what you were talking about with the apples to oranges. Not to sound negative but I wish that this would have been explained to me earlier. I didn't know about the quality and workmanship changing.

Jody, I understood about the DC suit having pockets and the pee valve, we talked about this and I even quoted 5thD. Also understood about the custom costs a bit more. As far as saying it was only worth $800, I made you an offer of that.
I can understand your position and I never expected you take a lose. To be honest with you I buy a lot of antiques for my home, I have NEVER paid the tagged price on higher items. This is just the way that I work. I am not out to take money from someone and if they don't want to sell it then all they have to do is say no. This is what you did and I was fine with that and we met half way.

I will never agree with the decision not to sell to me, if the suit wasn't already sold. I can understand your frustration with the past dealings but that was not me. I will stand behind my statement in my last email till the day I die. BTW, this will remain between those few that know of it and go no further.
I do have to agree that I think everything turned out for the better.

If everyone is agreeable I would like to consider this subject dead!

So how about those white sox?