Killing lionfish, does it work?

[Hank49]

He makes an awesome heavy backplate. I know since I own one!

yeah yeah yeah.....

 

[btkdiver]

No, they breed to abundantly and quickly.

 

[ams511]

This means that the ones that are here came from somewhere else. Why aren't there more? They've been here for about 4 years now.

The Romans thought that eels came from horse hair that fell into the water because they never saw a juvenile eel. We know that to be false. I am sure a large number of lionfish eggs and larva are eaten by fish. Where do the small ones live? Maybe bays and estuaries where you don't dive. Maybe the small ones hide until their spines are big enough to deter predators. I know in Florida people find small ones and either kill them or sell them to the aquarium trade.

 

[Doc]

"How about teaching them to find and identify all of those: "schools of yellow tail snapper, turtles, eels, staghorn, a nurse shark, queen conch and so many different species"... You mean like I already did?

I have seen a very few rare divers who can both hunt and observe reef creatures in a naturalist manner on the same dive. That, and only that is what I am getting at. These were "students" you said... probably not into multi-tasking... most divers are not. No different than the need to put a camera in the hand- this is yet another "thing to do while diving". ("Giving people an underwater mission is always a great idea....It's stinking fun!")

You can continue to take this as a personal attack, but it's so wide-spread... there aint nothing personal here, Pete. It is what the process has quickly degenerated into. The industry is gasping for air, so the Lionfish will be what SeaHunt did in the 60's, Jaws in the 70's. I am thinking and speaking from intimate industry contact for 50+ years. There is a perspective, here... look at the broader scene, not just what you yourself are doing- it's endemic.

I see you're trying to make a point here, but you've lost it in your attempt to be snarky. Man manages his natural resources based on current scientific understanding. Quite often, science is just plain wrong and our understanding shifts.

Man caused this problem. Only his innate and practiced mastery of hubris causes him to believe that he can "fix it".

While that may very well be the case here, I don't want to vilify people who are trying to help their environment out by eliminating a perceived threat.

I am not blaming the children, I am blaming the parents. Getting divers to hunt is easy. The other skills? Not so much. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hubris

Its incredibly easy to judge or even misjudge a person's motivations and I would hate to see that happen here. Until such time that environmentalists come out in unison and decry the lionfish massacre, you're going to see people actively trying to impact this threat. Diving is about having fun and doing no harm. As long as people engage in such a way as to be able to sustain our impact, I see no big problems. In this case, I see it positively impacting the scuba industry and that's a good thing in my estimation.

Agreed for your very specific niche environment of Florida. But then what? Now the hordes of Lion Fish hunters fly away, travel and bring their acquired hunting skill sets "to paradise". Talk about a wasted trip. Most civilized and forward thinking resorts/nations do not allow casual guests to carry pointed sticks. Prolly very smart. Hmm... what shall we do now that we're in the Caribbean, Maude?

Again, I must re-state... not a personal assault- it's merely emblematic of our industry's localized struggle to survive. If we could place the teaching of hunting, photography and such advanced multi-tasking skills into a tertiary level of dive training, but first concentrating on basic skills, then second~ teaching environmental and naturalist skills- maybe then the "students" would have a better idea of what to hunt and photograph.

Not much "teaching of students"... otherwise it's just a group bath.

 

[The Chairman]

I have seen a very few rare divers who can both hunt and observe reef creatures in a naturalist manner on the same dive. [/quote] So why not teach that skill? In reality, none of my students had the requisite permissions to hunt Lion Fish in this sanctuary and so they did not carry any pointy sticks. In fact, hunting lionfish on Molasses Reef (or any sanctuary in the Keys) can only be done with NETS and only after you get certified to do it responsibly. Yet, in spite of all these restrictions, we did not see a SINGLE lionfish on Molasses. Good job hunters! You are making snarky comments that are out of line with reality, yet you don't want us to take that as a personal attack.

These were "students" you said... probably not into multi-tasking... most divers are not.

O rly? We were actually working on trim, buoyancy and buddy skills for their AOW. We still had the presence of mind to spot all these wonderful creatures.

No different than the need to put a camera in the hand- this is yet another "thing to do while diving". ("Giving people an underwater mission is always a great idea....It's stinking fun!")

If that's what YOU want to do, please have at it. Not everyone HAS to do this YOUR way. Hunting is an atavistic exercise that harkens back to our ancestors. Any carnivore or pescavore that decries hunting displays a naivete that borders on the absurd. Its not against my ethics to have fun in order to eat.

The industry is gasping for air, so the Lionfish will be what SeaHunt did in the 60's, Jaws in the 70's. I am thinking and speaking from intimate industry contact for 50+ years. There is a perspective, here... look at the broader scene, not just what you yourself are doing- it's endemic.

The industry IS gasping for air. I don't mind doing some artificial respiration by hunting an invasive species. I'm not sure why you think an invasive species should be held as sacrosanct while the Scuba industry continues to struggle. Rather than have it flounder, lets let it Lionfish! Bad pun, but I had to get it off my chest.

 

[Bob DBF]

The industry IS gasping for air. I don't mind doing some artificial respiration by hunting an invasive species. I'm not sure why you think an invasive species should be held as sacrosanct while the Scuba industry continues to struggle. Rather than have it flounder, lets let it Lionfish! Bad pun, but I had to get it off my chest.

And lets face it, hunting the wile quagga mussel is not going to get a lot of divers fired up.


Bob
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There is no problem that can't be solved with a liberal application of sex, tequila, money, duct tape, or high explosives, not necessarily in that order.

 

[The Chairman]

And lets face it, hunting the wile quagga mussel is not going to get a lot of divers fired up.

Only if you can flex them afterwards on mussel beach.

 

[Hank49]

That's the point I was getting at. Many are frantically saying "there is no predator, they'll take over the Caribbean and all we'll have left is lionfish". that's obviously not the case. At least here.

The Romans thought that eels came from horse hair that fell into the water because they never saw a juvenile eel. We know that to be false. I am sure a large number of lionfish eggs and larva are eaten by fish. Where do the small ones live? Maybe bays and estuaries where you don't dive. Maybe the small ones hide until their spines are big enough to deter predators. I know in Florida people find small ones and either kill them or sell them to the aquarium trade.

 

[Doc]

Only if you can flex them afterwards on mussel beach.

O rly?

Did you really read what I wrote before selecting snippets to make a response? Go hunt, Pete, teach your students well. But try not to let it be a distraction from FIRST the learning of diving. Any "student" that I ever taught has precious little left to learn from me after they have become educated enough to be an advanced hunter.

Well, as usual Pete, you're absolutely right, though.

 

[ams511]

That's the point I was getting at. Many are frantically saying "there is no predator, they'll take over the Caribbean and all we'll have left is lionfish". that's obviously not the case. At least here.

Hank with all due respect I think you are being short-sighted. I left Florida in 2000 and up until then I had never seen a lionfish on a reef. Last weekend I saw several large ones on a very small reef in North Miami. Where did they come from? If the scientists are correct and the fish were released during Hurricane Andrew in 1992 where were they hidding for so long? Maybe they have not made it as far as Belize in great numbers. I hope they don't, but what happens when they do?