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Kicking styles.

Discussion in 'Basic Scuba Discussions' started by Dbmata, May 22, 2012.

  1. Dbmata

    Dbmata Angel Fish

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    Finally decided to make my first thread here. I didn't find much in my forum searching but that could be because I'm not sure about search terms.

    Something we didn't cover in my OW training was methods of propulsion. I have the flutter kick and dolphin kick down from swimming, but I see people here mentioning frog and backfinning. Should that have been covered in OW pool work? With the frog, what's the point? any tips to learn them? I'm not in a diving friendly part of MA, so no pools I can go to with fins on and work on things underwater.

    Now, how does the choice of kick affect trim? Something I noticed in the pool was that my knees were dragging when submerged, but I was "face heavy" with the bcd inflated at the surface, putting me face into the water. (Which is no doubt a different issue.) It WAS a good reminder to keep the reg or snorkel in my mouth. Now when you are in proper trim, are you supposed to feel as if you are pushing your forhead down at all times? Weights were split between pockets in the BCD (8#) and 10# on a belt.
     
  2. Dr Dog

    Dr Dog DIR Practitioner

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: Okanagan/Shuswap BC
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    you were wearing 18 pounds in a pool?

    Frog kick is a low silting kick, predominately used for tech diving, ala cave and wreck, where causing silt to be stirred up from the bottom would not be advisable. It is low impact finning, with the majority if not all your fin disturbance is directed slightly above you and behind you

    I am not a trim expert by any means, as I am pretty new to the sport also. but for me to get trim, I just need to get myself to that horizontal position and stay like that, that means keeping your body pretty still while using just your legs to do the work, with a flutter kick, it is hard to keep your body in trim, due to half your body shifting with every flutter.

    Back finning is a modified frog kick, that allows to maintain your position with lets say current behind you, or if you wanted to turn around and back up, while using the kick and staying in trim
     
  3. Dbmata

    Dbmata Angel Fish

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    Yes, 18#. Even with that I found myself "caught" a couple times at the surface - I'd claim that as operator error though.

    7mm suit, and a few more pounds of fat than I need made me think that's why I was carrying the extra lead. Now that I think of it, I kept falling forward whenever I tried to kneel at the bottom of the pool.

    With the frog and backfin, is that better to just let sit until I need it and learn "in the field"?
     
  4. elan

    elan DIR Practitioner

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
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    If you were doing a PADI OW most likely they would not be covered.

    Frog kick gives you power with the stream directed back. You can do the same with a version of a flutter when your upper leg is stationary but the lower leg works in a similar way as a regular flutter. Back kick gives you ability to backup. Back kick and frog executed by different legs will turn you on the spot. There are also modified versions of flutter and frog that have very low amplitude and let you microadjust your speed or pass by someone without a risk of hitting them.

    The kicks executed properly should not affect yor trim. More over proper balance and trim in stationary position is necessary in executing some of the kicks like back kick
     
  5. TSandM

    TSandM Missed and loved by many. Rest in Peace

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    Generally, other than trying to encourage students not to bicycle kick, not much about kicking technique is covered in OW.

    The alternative kicks (frog, modified frog, modified flutter, and back kick) are useful kicks for a variety of environments and conditions. Frog kicking is excellent over silty sediments, and is a nice kick to minimize gas consumption (because of the resting phase) and check buoyancy, too. Back kicking is extremely useful for photographers, but it's also the kick that lets you stay in position across from your buddy going up and down a line, or keep yourself from being pushed into a wall. Of all the kicks I've learned, I think the back kick is the most useful!

    There are a lot of videos on line of the various kicks. What you do when you don't have access to a pool and you don't have access to instruction or to frequent diving, I don't know. I guess you just have to practice when you get a chance to go diving.
     
    DivemasterDennis likes this.
  6. SnorkelLA

    SnorkelLA DIR Practitioner

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: The Water
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    I've been told a lot that I move REALLY fast underwater by my buddies. I have really long legs, but for some reason Im what you'd consider "ineffective" with the frog kick. I use the standard flutter kick myself, and when I'm lake diving with silty bottom composition I give myself a few kicks and let momentum propel me before kicking again. I use Aeris Velocity X3 fins, they tend to be really flexible so that may be why my frog kick suffers. I'm going to get me some Scubapro Jets soon, so maybe that'll help :/
     
  7. BCSGratefulDiver

    BCSGratefulDiver Mental toss flycoon ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: 2,500 - 4,999
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    I don't teach those kicks in OW either ... unless to an exceptional student who is getting all the required stuff so quickly that I'm comfortable throwing even more new stuff at them. Otherwise I'll offer it in the post-OW/pre-AOW workshop I've been teaching lately.

    Besides the frog and back kick, there's also a helicopter kick, which is basically frog kicking with one foot while back kicking with the other for the purpose of rotating your body in a horizontal plane. Some fins are easier to learn these kicks in than others, so a lot of how well you can do them does, in fact, boil down to choice of equipment.

    As Lynne mentioned, if you go to YouTube and search those terms, you'll find videos demonstrating each ... for class, I use a video I obtained from Fifth-D X back when they were in business ...

    ... Bob (Grateful Diver)
     
  8. ppo2_diver

    ppo2_diver Tech Instructor

    # of Dives: 1,000 - 2,499
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    While the frog kick is primarily an anti-silting kick, it does have some uses in the recreational world. For example, having a good frog kick allows you to get close to something to take pictures or video without damaging the marine environment. Even if one decides not to utilize a frog kick, keeping your knees and feet up helps minimize any contact with the bottom.

    I have been teaching the frog kick in my OW classes, while not a requirement to pass, the goal for my OW students is to keep their knees and feet away from the bottom, not to have a very strong frog kick. That can come later.
     
  9. Dbmata

    Dbmata Angel Fish

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    Was it this one Bob?
    [video=youtube;oLcITiZYUdA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLcITiZYUdA&feature=fvst[/video]

    It looks like something to try out, the power stroke looks awkward.
     
  10. randytay

    randytay Master Instructor

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    Location: USA
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    Yup, it says Frog Kick too! By the way, the guy in the video is Andrew Georgitsis :wink:
     

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