Kicked out of Nitrox Class!!

[Rick Murchison]

What an incredible story!
Incredible, I say!
Yes.... remarkable and incredible.
I believe you!
But, since the shop's owner should suffer bad publicity from such egregious behavior, I'm certain you won't mind posting names and addresses and dates & such... you know, so I can contact them and see what they have to say about it.
After all, we do want to be fair..... don't we?
Rick

 

[khel]

MikeFerrara once bubbled...


If it isn't going to sell gear of the student isn't a freind or something...why teach it. I agree...Down with the LDS. Close them all.

Mike, and why not to post a sign (on the website and in a shop) saying that they'll teach only in gear bought at their shop, so that people wouldn't get into this kind of situations??
I am new to the scuba and before I ran into this crap, I didn't even have a slightest idea about LDS/online problems. Only after being threatened, insulted, lied and so on (all because of the #@#$ cheap fins that I bought online) and spending hours on the forum I found out why this is happening.

khel

 

[Rick Murchison]

ElectricZombie once bubbled...
I've taught a Basic class with one person in it. They did not buy 1 piece of gear from the shop where I teach. After I was paid my fee, the shop was in the red by quite a bit. If trends like this continue, the LDSs of the world WILL close down. ...

I'll climb on my soapbox again... there must be a paradigm shift in the dive industry. Up 'til now, the rent at the LDS has been paid with clothing-store like margins on dive gear, while training and air fills are provided at cost or even at a loss. This won't work much longer, as internet "stores" who are drop-shipping from warehouses at 5 to 10 points - basically the same thing the LDS pays before any overhead - proliferate and customers just can't stand to pass up the price difference. LDS's must reduce inventory, make training profitable and learn to charge for what they provide now as "part of the sale" - servicing equipment, consulting on equipment selection etc. They must become LDTF's - Local Dive Training Facilities. This will take some deep pockets and some hard times as those who drag their feet gradually fail, forcing customers over to the higher priced training facilities.
Now is not the best time to be in the dive business as a shop owner.
... climbs down off soapbox ...
Rick

 

[MikeFerrara]

khel
As I said there isn't any way to justify what this shop owner did unless Rick is right and ther's another side of the story. I, However, understand (not agree with) why a shop owner would be tempted to do such a thing. You are correct that the unsuspecting diver who walks into the middle has no idea what is going on or why. None of it is right. Cheap useless classes that leave divers with a card but without any dive skills are not right. Shops having to teach classes at a loss just to avoid being alone. LOL, isn't right. Manufacturers pushing shops into a position where they have little choice but to sell gear at all costs (or have none to sell) isn't right.

Well, I guess you get my point. If I happen to think of something in the dive industry that I think is right I'll post it but don't hold your breath.

 

[Drew Sailbum]

Scubaroo once bubbled...
That is one of the most unprofessional stories of dive industry conduct I have heard.

Contact PADI - I'm sure they would be interested to hear this story. Doubt there's much they can do though other than recommend another PADI instructor in the area for you though. No doubt the dive shop has the legal right to do what they did, but their credibility just took a nosedive.

CERTIFICATION
1.Issue certification to a diver who has met all course performance
requirements for the particular level of certification.
a.Do not withhold certification as a means of settling personal
disputes.However,as long as the student diver understands up front
what fees he is responsible for to become certified,an instructor may
withhold certification if the student does not pay for the course as
originally agreed.
However,an instructor cannot withhold certification because
the student chooses to do business elsewhere (for example,
purchasing equipment from,or signing up for a trip with another
instructor or dive store.)


Please notify PADI. Such behavior is strictly prohibited. A Quality Assurance action would hopefully remind this instructor that this is no way to treat a customer.

 

[MikeFerrara]

Rick, I like that "not the best time" You say that so genly. LOL

 

[plsdiver4377]

Mike I understand your frustration. LDS operator/owners are being pigeon-holed by the manufacturer as well being forced by the consumer into trying to compete with companies able to sell the same product at or below wholesale/cost.

Being a land surveyor means having to compete with up to 50 or more other surveyors for the same business. The consumer has a problem realizing what it takes to become a surveyor let alone the cost of equipment, field crews, continuing ed., insurance, time involved, etc., etc., for many of the surveys I get involved with. All they see is what they think is an outrageous bill quoted or presented to them. All I can try to do is provide what I feel is superior service, by making sure they don't have any problems with their property in the future.

Right now the economy being what it is makes getting business even harder (at least in my business).

All that being said I could not and would not behave that way to any potential customer. The surveyor that acts in any similar manner would jsut send business my way (I hope).

Jim

 

[jray]

I'm shocked that a LDS would kick someone out of a class for not buying their equipment from them. I would find another dive shop right away. Eventually with an attitude like that the shop you went to will be out of business anyway.

I purchase most of my equipment from my LDS. They seem to have recognized that the internet exists and are fairly competitive with their prices. I recently bought a regulator setup for not much more than LP was charging for the same stuff and I get the benefit of a warranty and a pool to try it out in. It also left me with a warm fuzzy feeling knowing I supported my local economy. I also purchased mask and fins there just after getting my OW card and feel like I got ripped after checking online prices. Knowing what I know now I would have bargained a little harder on that purchase. When I purchased my wetsuit the shop let me try on anything I wanted and they gave me lots of advice on fit, etc. It would have been wrong in my opinion to make this purchase online just to save a few dollars.

On the other hand I purchased my BC online. This was before I had a good relationship with the shop owners and figured out I did not have to pay full retail for stuff there. I compared the price online and thought it was a no-brainer to get it that way. The shop knows I did not purchase it from them and they don't seem to care.

I had a discussion with one of the owners about how the store was doing and found out it's been a tough couple of years because people just aren't making discretionary purchases right now.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[MikeFerrara]

Drew Sailbum once bubbled...


CERTIFICATION
1.Issue certification to a diver who has met all course performance
requirements for the particular level of certification.
a.Do not withhold certification as a means of settling personal
disputes.However,as long as the student diver understands up front
what fees he is responsible for to become certified,an instructor may
withhold certification if the student does not pay for the course as
originally agreed.
However,an instructor cannot withhold certification because
the student chooses to do business elsewhere (for example,
purchasing equipment from,or signing up for a trip with another
instructor or dive store.)


Please notify PADI. Such behavior is strictly prohibited. A Quality Assurance action would hopefully remind this instructor that this is no way to treat a customer.

Read more carefully. They didn't withhold certification. they withheld the class! the student did not meet requirements because they didn't take the class.

It is true though there are only specific reasons (like non payment) that certification can be withheld after taking the class and meeting requirements.

This person didn't pay either, they got their money back.

But By all means call PADI. They should get a clue about what's going on in the trenches. After all they helped design the system.

We haven't seen our regional rep in two years. I wonder why!

 

[scuberd]

MikeFerrara once bubbled...

Well, I guess you get my point. If I happen to think of something in the dive industry that I think is right I'll post it but don't hold your breath.

hey,
I've never knowingly mislead another diver in any way at all. I've never stolen someone's money or lied to them. I've never had to pull a victim out of the water (except in training). Granted I don't yet work in the industry, but I volenteer. I hope as you see that as something right.


p.s. anyone want to hire a naui DM, AI?