Kelvin Grove Officially Off Limits

[Les]

are they enforceable bylaws or leftover scare tactics to the unaware?

 

[sschlesi]

The bylaw is still on the books.

The last thing I have seen from a member of Lions Bay council is here Lions Bay Community Online BC Canada - Visitors, Visitors!.

The interesting part is:
"At the time, it seemed like a creative approach. However, some divers - and some residents too – have felt it is discriminatory. To make sure, Council has sent it back to the legal advisors who reviewed the bylaw before it was passed, and asked them for a closer look and a briefing. We will not in the meantime be enforcing this clause. If it turns out to be impractical, Council will look at other means of achieving the aims of our OCP in this case."

No one knows when/if they will start enforcing the clause again. My guess is they never will. And even if they did choose to enforce the bylaw, part of the reasoning that councilor Akerhielm gave for creating the bylaw was the village's lack of effective bylaw enforcement.

Reports from divers have indicated that Lions Bay residents are extra friendly to divers lately. It would appear that the council has very little support for the scuba law.

I have seen no official legal opinion on the bylaw, if the village council has one they aren't sharing. Many believe the bylaw to be unenforceable for discriminatory, and jurisdictional reasons.

My personal approach to the issue is:
-Feel free to go diving at Kelvin Grove
-Be sensitive to local concerns (nudity, urinating, public drinking)
-Keep the group size small

 

[vancouverdiver]

We dove there saturday, and a couple of friends dove sunday with no incidents.

Saw two neighbours and they were very friendly.
Of course, don't give them any excuse to get made at divers.

 

[paddledive]

Several of the recent bylaws (yes, including the 'visitor/resident parking') are unlawful and unenforceable. The Mayor and Council are now well aware of this. Not only have they been bashed by an overwhelming number of the their own residents, but the legal limitations of what they can and cannot do have also been clearly explained to them.

Ultimately, The Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms says it all. I recently found a nicely printed copy of the Canadian Charter on the brochure rack of a Service Canada office (free for the taking). After giving a couple of copies to the Lions Bay Mayor and Council, I've now adopted the rather eccentric practice of displaying my own copy on the dashboard of my car whenever I park there. I park my car wherever any other car may park and dive as I always have. I don't strip down to nudity and use the bathroom when I gotta go. I haven't been ticketed or towed and have, on one occasion, witnessed a resident stop in mid-sentence, turn around and walk away when they saw what was on my dashboard.
The intention is not to provoke conflict with the few elitist residents who have a mistaken belief of what is theirs, but rather not to cater to unlawful bylaws that are designed to restrict the freedoms of a select group.

 

[Sintax604]

The Underwater Council of BC is now stepping into the light and attempting to organize a meeting with Lions Bay council to get this issue resolved for good.

I've been asked to post a letter from the UCBC which is also being sent to council:

Dear Divers and Lions Bay Village Council,

The Underwater Council of BC (UCBC) has in the past successfully negotiated a conciliatory agreement between divers, and the Lions Bay Village Council to allow diving at Kelvin Grove in a limited fashion. This issue continues to re-circulate and requires constant attention. Previously, small groups of divers were allowed to access the site for diving if, in return, dive shops did not bus in loads of students for training, and also did not operate compressors in the residential neighborhood. With emotions running high and bad feelings escalating, it would be beneficial for the dive community to meet with the Lions Bay community and once again strike up a working agreement regarding the Kevin Grove site for diving. After looking over many e-mails forwarded to me, as well as opinions that have been posted in the local newspapers, I feel that errors have been made on both sides of the argument. Many of the comments coming from anonymous divers have been in the categories of ugly and over-reactive. On the other hand, are the residents sure that all transgressions have been committed by the divers, rather than transient youths partying? Since the beginning of Kelvin Grove, there have been constant problems with out of area cliff divers partying at and around the location. Residents should be careful not to make wide accusations toward all users of the site. Divers as well should be very careful about how they behave when visiting. Facilities, which include washrooms with a small change area, are locked at park closing times to prevent damage. This is fair and protects them for all daytime users (residents and divers alike).

I am a very active diver, a long time resident of Kelvin Grove, and also a member of the Underwater Council of BC. I have been observing the issues from both perspectives, and am hoping that all parties concerned will relax and start a dialogue to reduce the problems and conflict. As a diver, it is no fun having a resident come out and start yelling because they believe that they alone have access and control of the area. This has happened to me when I parked with a residential parking pass in the designated spot, and was quietly gearing up. Scuba diving is not an illegal or immoral activity, and Kelvin Grove beach is a public place for anyone who uses it properly. The scuba diving community has to remember that the key here is proper use; residents have to remember that this is a public beach, road, and access path.

Unfortunately, press coverage of the conflict has been inflammatory, factually incorrect, and has been promoting controversy. The response from the dive community has ranged from poor to confrontational. Groups: please be cautious and consider using a more conciliatory attitude. There are individuals who are not members of either of the above parties that, to cause chaos or even straight anarchy, will try and escalate the problems. This issue can grow from a matter of dive access to a matter of constitutional rights in the blink of the eye.
I disagree with the “hosting a dive party” approach to tackling the situation. A large diving party will not help and will only expand the media coverage, creating a greater potential for hostile escalation. I urge divers not to respond in this fashion and not to attend any group dives at the site. Instead, let’s work out an agreement and help educate both parties about the others’ needs and legitimate rights. This can be done publicly in the Lions Bay council chambers. Remember, there are innocent parties and residents that support scuba diving that can be negatively affected by a large group dive. Do not lose their vital support through any overtly aggressive actions. One will find that aggressiveness is of concern after they read some of the news web site comments of individuals who have threatened to attend just to urinate and defecate in public. The closest residents to the dive site are a benevolent family that has publicly defended and supported diving there. Please do no harm to their neighbourhood, or retaliate in an antagonistic fashion because you feel that your right to dive the site has been removed. There is a better way to solve this problem.

Residents and councilors should also remember the scuba diving community’s magnanimous actions in Lions Bay. In an event organized by the UCBC, they came into the village and extensively cleaned up the main beach and marina, above and below the surface. There were more than a hundred divers participating, with dive displays, underwater critter tanks, and a DFO marine biologist giving demonstrations, (see the Lions Bay Seagull date winter 2000 edition). Divers don't normally pollute or damage an area that they have helped improve and benefit.

There are lower Kevin Grove residents than need to meet with the RCMP and be advised on how to properly respond to any alleged problems. This meeting needs to be harmonized through the village council. There are divers that need to improve their behavior at the site and realize that it only has a limited capacity for diving.

The UCBC can help by starting the dialogue and representing the divers. The village council can allow this dialogue and listen to all parties.

We all live in a British Columbia paradise, and a very fair society, so let’s do our best to work together to improve it.

Sincerely,
Glen Dennison

 

[BradnerBoy]

The Underwater Council of BC is now stepping into the light and attempting to organize a meeting with Lions Bay council to get this issue resolved for good.

--- SNIP ---

A little late to the dance, aren't they?

I thought it was resolved to the satisfaction of both parties. Has something changed?

 

[mustang_5l]

A little late to the dance, aren't they?

I thought it was resolved to the satisfaction of both parties. Has something changed?

I agree...

 

[Sintax604]

A little late to the dance, aren't they?

I thought it was resolved to the satisfaction of both parties. Has something changed?

Unfortunately, no. Council decided to take their controversial bylaw back to the drawing board. While they are discussing the issue further the bylaw will not be enforced. That's where we are right now.

UCBC and council will be meeting in December to try to hammer out a workable long-term solution.

 

[nadwidny]

I'm surprised to hear that the UCBC even exists. At the last couple of Diver's Weekends at the Aquarium that I attended, the UCBC booth sat empty all weekend.

I'm glad to see that it has apparently been revived and is doing what a council needs to be doing in a situation like this.

 

[sschlesi]

Unfortunately, no. Council decided to take their controversial bylaw back to the drawing board. While they are discussing the issue further the bylaw will not be enforced. That's where we are right now.

UCBC and council will be meeting in December to try to hammer out a workable long-term solution.

Do you have any details you can share outside of what was posted on lionsbay.net?