Keeping my feet up...

[pants!]

Well,

To be honest, there are thousands of divers who've managed to get trim right and buoyancy right without the DIRF class. Not saying that practicing incorrectly won't be harder to correct, but I don't want to be a "poor diver" while I wait for the class. I hope this makes sense.

I'll enlist the help of my DIR friend to check me over when he has time, and I'll just swim around and learn...

Thanks everyone. I have more questions to ask, but I'll start a new thread.

To be honest, I've yet to see a single diver get it "right" without proper instruction from an instructor experienced in diagnosing and fixing buoyancy issues.

The fact that you're asking here means you're in need of help with the issue.

You can go out and do 1000 dives and figure it all out on your own, or you can take the class and have someone who knows what they're doing look at you and tell you what you're doing wrong.

You're not going to figure it all out in 25 dives and if you get really into the habit of doing the wrong thing it's that much harder to unlearn your bad habits.

 

[Doc Intrepid]

Perrone,

Bouyancy is one thing. Trim another. Sounds like you've got your weighting pretty well worked out...maybe. (Dude, if you're "maybe 1 lb light" with that 80 filled with gas, then when that 80 is nearly empty you'll be more like 5 lbs light. Unless you're working in the pool with a nearly empty tank...)

Trim is all about Center of Gravity (and often in at least two of the three axes - lateral and longitudinal). Your bp weights 6 lbs. Its flat against your back. You've another 6 lbs around your waist. Your CG is somewhere between your pelvis and your solar plexis (varies based on body type, build, etc.). Like a lever and fulcrum, if your feet consistently drift down when you struggle, ...it isn't that you don't need that 6 lbs, but that you may not need it around your waist.

Moving weight to your tank strap might be unwise also, because now its some 8" - 10" above your CG, which can influence longitudinal instability (rolls you over - top heavy - esp. w/stages and a reel).

If you're diving a single, a P-weight - or even half a P-weight stuck on either your lower or upper bolt - may solve your problem best, moves that weight above your CG but keeps it flat against your back.

Point is that you've cranked in bouyancy considerations, but now have to screw around with where to put that weight so that you achieve equilibrium around your center of gravity.

It just takes some time. Work with it and don't get frustrated. Get half a P-weight or so and bolt it inside your channel higher or lower until you're trimmed out. Don't forget to remove the weight of the P-weight from your belt.

(And make sure all this happens with an empty tank, not a full one..., especially in 6' of water. You want to be able to arrest your ascent without effort all the way to the surface...)

Its a process. You'll get there.

Doc

 

[peter_steinhoff]

I agree with Doc.

Move the weights. I would actually start by putting all of the 6 lbs on the upper camband (close to the plate) and go from there.

Getting proper trim is 75% training and 25% equipment but keeping that trim while dealing with problems is 100% training.

Peter

 

[PerroneFord]

Doc,

Thanks for the words... I weighted myself with 400psi in the tank. I started this pool session around 2000 and ended with about 1200. I was just about neutral with the tank at 400psi when I did my weighting check.

I may fool with the weights in a week or two. Trying to conserve diving money this month for my Nitrox class. Not really sure how I am going to pull weight off the belt cleanly. I am using 2 3# blocks. What does a P-Weight weigh?

I don't think my trim is off by a lot to be honest. I am able to pivot myself longitudinally with my arms and legs. So there is some balance. I think the problem is just unfamiliarity with the position, and trying to learn to "lay flat" in the water.

If it's a gear issue, I'll get it sorted out soon enough. I think I am ahead of the game right now compared to most recreational divers so I'll keep working on it.

Thanks a lot guys.

 

[TSandM]

Well, something I learned tonight is that, when I am in correct, horizontal alignment, I feel as though I am severely chest down. So you may need someone to watch you in order to know when you are right, because your subject perception may be quite off. Mine was.

 

[PerroneFord]

TS&M

One of the things I've been able to do, is just lay on the bottom of the pool. Flat. And then hold that position and just lighten myself up until I am neutral. This gives me a feel for what my proper trim should be.

I've heard people describe that they feel like they are "on their head" when in proper trim. I guess if you are so used to being fins down, it would feel like that. I can tell by my glide distance now if I am in decent trim or not...

 

[Reinoud]

Well, something I learned tonight is that, when I am in correct, horizontal alignment, I feel as though I am severely chest down. So you may need someone to watch you in order to know when you are right, because your subject perception may be quite off. Mine was.

There are a few things to check whether you are really horizontal:

• bend you head down and look back under your body (without moving something else). If you can see the horizon that is a good sign
• If you are in a pool, the first thing that should thouch the bottom is the D-ring on your crotch strap. If your knees hit the bottom first, arch your back and sqeeze you bottoms

One thing I practice to really make sure I am not cheating myself is putting one hand on the wrist of the other hand (no waving!), and let one ankle touch the other ankle (no movement of the feet). If you do this and manage to stay in the same place on the same depth in the same (horizontal) position for a few minutes (!) you are getting the right control over your trim.

BTW: something I see a lot and experienced myself is that people have their fins pointing upwards to control their trim without thinking about it. These are the things you will not discover yourself without an instructor (or video) and the kind of habits that are hard to get rid of if you practice alone for a few months.....