Jill Has A Very Bad Cave Dive

[kanonfodr]

Whoa, that sounds like quite a pickle.

I would agree, the fight or flight response can be useful anywhere. It can also get you killed anywhere. I don't cave dive but I've been in plenty of freaky situations between living an "adventurous" life and getting deployed to Iraq twice.

It's important to always keep a clear head about the situations you find yourself in, consider all the options you have available, and take the path that has the highest probability of survival. Awareness, of both yourself and your situation is key to this, as first you need to have your mind and body under control before you can adequately gain control of the situation.

I'm glad Jill made it out of this and she chose to put it in writing as opposed to just letting it go. Hopefully we can all learn something from this.

Peace,
Greg

 

[John C. Ratliff]

To me it is not a matter of whether the "fight or flight response" is useful, but how it is used. We cannot really control whether the fight or flight response will occur, but we can "pre-program" our response to it. This is where experience comes in; it lets our brains know whether something out-of-the-ordinary is hazardous or not.

To give an example, my third parachute jump was the worst for me. I was then fully aware of what was happening, but did not have the experience to know that it was really survivable. A year and twenty or thirty jumps later, the same experience was "no big deal," and after six or seven years some jumps even became a bit boring.

In diving situations, especially zero-visibility situations, the same thing can occur. Why does zero visibility elicite fight-or-flight? Because we know we are underwater, in a cave, in a wreck, or in an overhead situation and perceive the need for our vision to survive. But ask yourself, how would a blind diver respond? If you pre-program yourself, even to the point of mock zero-visibility dives, to deal with these kinds of situations, then you will. In this manner, you can actually change your perceptions so that the "flight-or-fight" response does not occur.

Fight-or-flight response can be either positive or negative. Yes, it gives great strength and ability, but at a cost. That cost could be concentration to think through a "situation," an "oh S#$% moment." Controlling our response to environmental happenings is very important. "Changing our perceptions of reality. This includes any technique whereby we seek to change our mental perspectives, our attitudes, our beliefs and our emotional reactions to the events that happen to us." (Dr. Neimark)

Once we are under control, using the techniques of the "Relaxation Response" (controlled, deep breathing, active relaxation, etc.), we can think through a situation which would be impossible under "fight-or-flight."

SeaRat

 

[Jill Heinerth]

Lessons from my worst cave dive continue here but I wanted to post one of them, lesson eight, below:

Lesson Eight: This lesson is specific to a particular gear modification. I’m not one to tell anyone how to wear their equipment. I believe there are many solutions for many different people in different diving scenarios. I’m not DIR. I’m a total DIC. Do It Clean. Streamlining is important and an open mind is critical. Question everything. Why am I doing it this way? How can it get me into trouble? What can I learn from others?
So, here is my particular beef... Recently, some people have chosen to route the inflator on their side mount wing from the bottom up. They reason that it is more streamlined. If the diver needs to dump gas they can use a shoulder pull dump or the inflator dump that comes up from the bottom. Now, here is the rub. Literally. My buddy was stuck in a restriction with too much gas in the wing, supporting her negative bottles. In her body position the shoulder dump would not release the gas. The inflator dump did not either. That left me behind her, seeing a full wing lodged in the ceiling with no way to assist. There was no outlet at the bottom of the wing. No pull dump. In the slightly butt up position there was no getting gas out of that thing. I was preparing to cut it when I managed to squeeze my hand on top and force the air forward, leaving me with a few cuts on the back of my hand where it had been pressed against the rocky ceiling. Not fun. How did that routing benefit her?
Things above the nipple line are much easier to control and reach and rarely snag. You might not be able to reach things lower down, but your buddy can help.
Again, don’t mistake this for a back and white statement. I just can’t see one dive in my history where that configuration would have helped me and I do see one dive where it might have cost us big.

Jill Heinerth

 

[Jax]

Okay, I don't get it -- she's pressing a fully inflated wing against the top. Why could she not expel gas from the inflator dump? It's in the nipple line. As is the dump cord? And there's pressure on the wing from the ceiling as well as the diver below.

Someone want to help me understand this? Why wouldn't either of the two areas expel gas?

I understand the inflator is moved to the bottom inside due to the elbow getting banged up, sitting on top of the wing. Is that correct?

BTW - non -cave diver and newbie side-mount diver.

 

[tstormdiver]

Jill,
Thank you for posting what happened to you. My cave instructor had me read it. He explained that it is situations like yours, is why he pushes us so hard & is demanding during our courses. I really thank God that he cares that much. Being a novice full cave diver, your writings have helped me see some of the not-so-obvious things that can go wrong. Sometimes there are things you just can't completely foresee about a dive. I appreciate you sharing your experience for us to learn from.

 

[Doc Harry]

I hate reels, use 'em only when I have to. Spools are much better. I carry two safety spools just in case...

 

[Jill Heinerth]

Okay, I don't get it -- she's pressing a fully inflated wing against the top. Why could she not expel gas from the inflator dump? It's in the nipple line. As is the dump cord? And there's pressure on the wing from the ceiling as well as the diver below.

Someone want to help me understand this? Why wouldn't either of the two areas expel gas?

I understand the inflator is moved to the bottom inside due to the elbow getting banged up, sitting on top of the wing. Is that correct?

BTW - non -cave diver and newbie side-mount diver.

Well... as with everything... it is complicated. The first two dives she did were with her trusty HP100s and the final dive was a brand new set. Unfortunately she did not realize that the new set, from a different manufacturer, netted an additional 15 pounds of negative buoyancy. that is a lot. The first set were 3500 working pressure, the second 3190 working pressure. Anyway... she did release some air form the wing, but the floor was gooey, gooey muck and ceiling rock, so crawling is not an option. We try to carefully scoot right over the soft stuff without getting into it. Its a fine balance, but the heavier tanks were a real surprise.
The wing did not dump primarily because of the body position she was forced to adopt in the restriction. Some air came out but other air was still trapped. She tried to anticipate the restriction, but it got worse when no vis left us feeling for the largest areas to slip through.
I wear my inflator over the left shoulder and across the chest to the right d ring. The butt dump is standard and seems to work well in anything I have found thus far.
I guess this also is a warning to be really careful when you shop for tanks. Get out the weight and buoyancy chart and be creaful you are getting what you expect.
Jill

 

[Jill Heinerth]

Lessons From A Bad Cave Dive Part 1

Are you not taught not to push yourself deeper into a hole? And that kicking will cause a silt out? What caused the free flow? Did you find out?
- Yes indeed... but this may be the first time she experienced a tight restriction on exit. She did fine on the inbound pass.
Freeflow was a combo of mud in the second stage from finding my way in no-vis and a failed main valve diaphragm in the second stage pilot valve.

When did buddy become lost?
- When line was broken and I was patching and feeling around for good line to tie in to.

I am curious why do people not take their line out with them, instead of it becoming a hazard for others? And if everyone uses line through there why you were not that day?
- Permanent guideline is placed in caves so that others may follow. When caves are initially explored primary line is laid and surveyed. If the cave is subject to flooding, then sometimes old line gets ripped out, buried or broken or all of the above. New line is then laid for safety and it takes a volunteer team to go and lay heavier line and clean up all the old lines. Once you get off the beaten track in cave diving, there are literally dozens of caves that have lots of old, broken line in them that need cleaning up. Some lines such as in the Santa Fe River caves, gets broken and ripped out every flood season.
I plan on gaining permission to clean all the old line out of Otter and will donate heavy guideline, silt stakes and signs. Even if the cave never gets opened to the general public it will help avoid the situation we faced.

How long was she cave certified?
- She was well trained and experienced in diving in nasty side mount caves for scientific work. However, nothing replaces the experienced gained in a really bad situation.
I always suggest that divers concentrate on good training followed by lots of good life experiences before moving forward to the next level of training. I think she just got that in spades!

When diving with someone who has less experience do you not try to dive within their means as not to overextend their skills?

- Absolutely, but how much can you really anticipate? We did two flawless lead up dives that day that went awesome. She has been diving in tough conditions doing science work. Sometimes **** happens to good people and conditions overwhelm their highest stress level.

I thought she was in the lead (see first paragraph)

- I lead in, which means she leads out in cave diving. There is no jockeying for position in cave diving and it would be impossible in that cave in any case.

BTW - Love the sign...

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I've seen that happen before when folks switch from PST to Faber cylinders ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Ayisha]

The first two dives she did were with her trusty HP100s and the final dive was a brand new set. Unfortunately she did not realize that the new set, from a different manufacturer, netted an additional 15 pounds of negative buoyancy. that is a lot. The first set were 3500 working pressure, the second 3190 working pressure...

...I guess this also is a warning to be really careful when you shop for tanks. Get out the weight and buoyancy chart and be creaful you are getting what you expect.
Jill

I guess that is a warning to be careful when shopping for tanks, especially if you plan to switch them out without switching anything else. Also there's a more basic lesson though, which is to not do a sidemount harrowing cave dive through tiny restrictions in new gear! :shocked2:

Jill, are you going to be speaking at the Shipwrecks Symposium in Ontario again?