Japanese tourist killed by boat prop off of Phuket

[GrumpyOldGuy]

Don, re live pickup on CA dive boats.

I have done drift dives with live pickup off Catalina 2x. Its not common and was NOT with any students on board. It can be done safely, but requires a team effort and reasonable skill on BOTH the parts of the boat crew and divers.

 

[Quero]

In case anyone is wondering, this is the boat. I estimate she's 80 feet long and 15-20 feet wide. Our boats all have cctv on the dive deck so the captain can monitor what is going on at the back of the boat. As in the US, to captain a vessel this size requires a special license.

 

[Tricia]

Oh, and I have seen experienced divers confuse the buttons and rocket to the surface, enough that my bud & I use dump valves only - but that has risks too.

Don, you bring up an interesting point that I had forgotten about until now and might help with the discussion on training.

When I did my OW training back in 2000, I'm sure the instructor told us that we could get air out of the BCD by either using the button on the end of the inflator hose or the dump valves, but in all the excitement/confusion of training, I missed the last part. And it wasn't until I was on maybe my 5th or 6th dive (with another operator) that an instructor approached me and pointed out that the dump valves were a better choice because there was less risk of hitting the inflator button by accident.

Since then, I always use the dump valves when ascending. Mine work well, so it's possible. Now, I do still keep my left hand up for 2 reasons: because it makes me look up to check the computer on my wrist and therefore to keep looking up at the surface. And because I figure if I do hit something, I'd rather lose my hand than have something worse happen.

Trish

 

[ZenDiver.3D]

Do you know which dive she was on (1-4) ? It sounds like an equipment knowledge/handling issue. I shot to the surface on my very first training dive (DSD) because I mixed up which button was which on my BCD as it was different from the one I had used in the pool. I wonder if the certification agencies should be taking notice here and revising the curiculum to address this.

The curriculum does address this in all agencies under ascents and descents. Then they drill and drill..... I don't know why the girl shot up, whether misuse of gear, prposefully inflating to ascend, panic, or inflator hose malfunction. We don't know, so to start blaming instruction is premature and foolish.
I will not blame to captain, because I don't know the ins and outs of that site and the boat/diver protocal for picking up divers. They can vary. I am going to wait a bit more and see if I find out more.

Without that knowledge, I Can bring out lessons learned here- 1. Make damn sure you acquaint yourself with your gear. Make sure you double check your hands before pushihng buttons. Listen for the damn boats.

True, but there is no "drill button positions until you can do it with your eyes closed".
This is something you do based on your own personal skill and experience. I am not trying to criticize PADI or any instructor. I am just saying that maybe there is something to be learned here, and that maybe a change to the wording of the curiculum might be in order.

It may also be a good idea that, when OW students are submerged, the boats not be allowed to run their propelers, and that the first two classes not be allowed in areas with high boat traffic. Student's in the first class have a very narrow perspective that only widens with experience, and this could have just as easily happened without equipment issues given the wrong set of circumstances.

There are things to be learned here, true.
For us, if a 1st dive ends up a drift dive, I have my dm deploy his/her smb from the bottom (we are never over 12 meters on OW 1,2, and then the students and I ascend the line using it as reference with me being the first holding the line. I carefully confirm which button they are using, also.

To me - sounds like a instructional issue. The instructor has to have control (visual/physical) of the students at all times. I know that in countries other than the United States liability is different. Some folks playing fast and loose with standards. In this case - especially with students on dive one I would have some method of controlled ascent available to the students. A sausage tied to the bottom being one method of controlled ascent.

From what I read - it sounds very much a like this accident could have been prevented if the instructor had been more prudent. As the dive vessel was flagged over for retrieval...very hard to ascertain where the divers are when you are underway, and at the helm.

As Vladimir suggested - covered props could go a long way towards preventing accidents like this. As Don suggested - I am not a fan of live boat pickup. Especially with newbies in the water.

X

Unless you have instructed, don't be so quick to stateteh issues you imagine. They are not factual. I have dm'd a class where a student panicked and it was a tight fast second to get them before they were out of reach. My students have never panicked, knock wood.

Whenever I am operatoring a vessel I either know the location of my divers and manuever or I don't start the engine. There is no excuse for moving your vessel if you don't know where every diver is, especially if they are scattered around your vessel.
Any details that come out will not excuse the operators lack of attention to divers location.
My sympathy for the family of the late diver.

We do too. Our captain will not come in for a pick up if he knows others are near and still below. Holding away until complete ascent is a sound plan.

 

[DandyDon]

Don, you bring up an interesting point that I had forgotten about until now and might help with the discussion on training.

When I did my OW training back in 2000, I'm sure the instructor told us that we could get air out of the BCD by either using the button on the end of the inflator hose or the dump valves, but in all the excitement/confusion of training, I missed the last part. And it wasn't until I was on maybe my 5th or 6th dive (with another operator) that an instructor approached me and pointed out that the dump valves were a better choice because there was less risk of hitting the inflator button by accident.

Since then, I always use the dump valves when ascending. Mine work well, so it's possible. Now, I do still keep my left hand up for 2 reasons: because it makes me look up to check the computer on my wrist and therefore to keep looking up at the surface. And because I figure if I do hit something, I'd rather lose my hand than have something worse happen.

Trish

I don't think ours did, just taught the deflate button, but it's been a decade so who knows. My current LDS teaches the Superman Ascent: left arm bent while holding the deflate button, right arm straight up to signal. I'm sure it varies a lot with Instructors, but there's only so much that can be taught and checked out in the current OW programs and I doubt that dump valves are taught much - certainly not reels & SMBs.

There is a risk to using the main dump on the exhaust hose too, of breaking the cable tie or pulling it loose, leaving you unable to inflate at all. One of the first things we drill on our first dive of every trip is dumping weights.

 

[ramasule]

It's funny, I'm 26 and I remember being shown this poster (or one very simular) when I was about 9 by my teacher.

Tragic story yes, but at the end of the day I believe we know the girl was not with her instructor / db, because she mis-operated her equipment.

 

[Roko]

Tragic story yes, but at the end of the day I believe we know the girl was not with her instructor / db, because she mis-operated her equipment.

When I was doing my OW, one person had her inflater button get stuck when trying to put in a puff of air into her BC. She shot to the surface, but was okay.

A diver should be able to tell when they're inflating vs deflating their BC based on sound, feel, and lack of bubbles. How well a new diver can notice this from only confined water dive experience is arguable and will depend on the specific diver.

It's possible that she may have been adjusting buoyancy, or mistook the buttons and let go, but the inflater stuck. I'm not saying that's what happened, but with what little we know from an Internet thread, we can't jump on blaming this new diver and ignoring all the other possible contributing factors.

 

[DandyDon]

BC inflator buttons are indeed a risk point. Some suggest servicing them annually. I do rinse mine well and tell well before each dive, but there is always a chance of a stuck on and the need to dump like hell. This may have nothing to do with this accident other than a learning opportunity of discussion.

 

[DandyDon]

Excerpting from this update: Accident ?likely conclusion? in diver?s death | Phuket Local News - Phuket news, events, jobs, classifieds where it sounds like either diver error or stuck inflator...

Hitomi Shibata, 22, died instantly after her head struck a boat propeller while she was diving off Racha Island, about 12 kilometres south of Phuket, on May 4.

Police spent a month interviewing others who were with Ms Shibata on a three-day open-water scuba diving course with Kontiki Divers, aboard a rented boat belonging to Marine Project Co.

The investigation confirmed that Ms Shibata accidentally fully inflated her buoyancy compensator device (BCD), which caused her rapid ascent. BCDs are usually used to help divers maintain neutral buoyancy, but can also be used in extreme emergency as a device to get to the surface fast.

Ms Shibata’s diving partner, who accompanied her, was dragged with her to the surface as well. Fortunately, he only hit the side of the boat and suffered minor injuries.

Police believe that Ms Shibata pushed the inflator button on the BCD too hard, causing the BCD to inflate rapidly, carrying her head-first into the propeller of the boat, which was manoeuvring to pick up another group who had just finished their dive.

Ms Shibata’s family, who came to collect her remains three days after her death, lodged no complaint, police said.

Critics in the diving industry have stressed that boats used for diving should never use their engines while divers are in the water. There is, however, no law to cover this aspect of diving safety.

 

[k374]

I just don't get it! Why is it necessary to position a boat with running propellers directly over divers? WHY? Common sense dictates that the boat position itself away from the point of immediate descent or the SMB (incase of ascent), the divers will then surface and swim the 50m or whatever to the boat.