Island Ventures in Key Largo Florida

[wardric]

On the horns of a dilemma with that, eh?
I never can decide either, so I've abandoned the active verb for the gerund...
and use "I went diving..."

Rick

lol, i felt pc today and didn't want to offend anyone so I put all the options...

but I like your solution

and now, I'm wondering if buddy will offend someone :11: maybe I should have used comrade or companion or partner or...

 

[herman]

Seeing how the OP did a cut and paste on a couple of threads, forgive me but I am going to do the same.

I have had the pleasure of diving with Ann and Darrel on several occasions over the last couple of years, twice for a week at time. I have found them and their captains great to work with and very safety conscious. They are my first choice when diving the upper keys and who I send my friends to.

I suspect few of you know that Darrel was on the Grove the day that the 3 divers got killed last March and was one of the first boats to respond. I know this because I was there at the time and was on the other Island Adventure boat 4 miles away listening to the radio traffic. He has good reason to be cautious of who he allows to dive on his boats. It's pretty much universal that dive ops do not allow divers without at least AOW to dive on the Grove, I would think an experienced instructor or dive leader would know that. While I totally agree that there are lots of divers without the “proper” C card who are quite capable of the dives (and those with them who are not) the ops have to make the cut some way and the C card is their only real option. The Grove is not the place for novices or careless divers. IF divers on his boat refused to follow his rules and showed less than safe behavior, refusing to take them to more advanced sites shows their commitment to running a safe operation.

To put this in some perspective, that same week the weather got fairly rough for the Keys, Darrel offered to take my dive buddy (OW) and myself out even though the conditions were worse than he normally goes out in…we had shown we could dive safely in those conditions. (We declined, we can dive 8 ft seas in NC anytime )

 

[Red_5]

From what I've read in this thread, I have no doubt that Island Ventures is doing all they can to run a safe charter operation.

That said...

It might help to prevent future misunderstandings if the dive charter posted whatever requirements a dive might have right there where they are doing the advertising for it. While they point out that Duane and Bibb are for more experienced divers, there is such no caveat for the Grove. They only mention the medallion. And they don't point out what they mean by "more experienced divers". Is that AOW? A recent deep dive or dives? Does hiring a guide count?

From the Island Ventures website:



John

I agree, they don't say "AOW". Well, might I make a friendly suggestion that they update their prerequisits to what they actually require, instead of some vague term subject to differing oppinion (?)

something along the lines of:
minimum requirements for this dive are:
AOW certification or equivalent experince consisting of (list criteria here) or under the instruction of a certified DM or greater

I think you get the idea. Something more clear to avoid any misunderstanding would go a lot further.

I'd be pretty upset if I thought I met the definition of "experinced", made plans and invested in the time and travel to get there and only find out at departure time that I wasn't able to go.

 

[ItsBruce]

I am sure that there are some dive ops who look for ways to cut the day sort and get back to the dock. However, I've never actually run into one.

Just as there must be such ops, there must be divers who confuse the op's exercise of good judgement with a desire to just get back to the dock.

As I see it, there is bound to be a problem when divers on a charter expect to go to a certain dive site and it turns out that some of the divers are not qualified for that dive. Should the op take everyone to the siite and risk the divers who are not qualified? Obviously not. Even though the unqualified divers may voluntarily elect to do a dive that is beyond their capabilities, if something goes wrong, the blame (and liability) falls on the op. Should the op take everyone to the site and make the unqualified divers sit out the dive? Or should the op take everyone to an easier site?

The last two choices are the tough ones. I do not have a good answer. What does anyone else think?

 

[Jim Lapenta]

I have been on the Grove several times and encountered conditions ranging from millpond to flapping like flags in the breeze on the down line. I wonder at the OP's research before booking this trip. With all the publicity in the diving community over this site (both good and bad) it would take a pretty naieve person to even comtemplate taking inexperienced divers on this dive. First of all it is deep-95 or so to the deck on the bow. Lots of swim thrus and lots of temptation to explore passages off of them that may or may not have another opening. Currents can come up in a heartbeat, vis can go from 100+ to less than 20 or 30 and worse if some numbskull goes in the wrong place and silts it up. To me it is a no brainer. If you don't have experience in current, deep, other wrecks, stay off of this dive and go somewhere easier. If there is any fault here it's with the trip organizer who does not want to take the blame for screwing up a dive trip by not informing his people of what is involved. Blaming it on the op is soooo much easier. I applaud the captain for the call he made. Especially after the problems that cropped up and more so after a diver surfacing without his buddy(instructor) who it was agreed would stay closer.

Now what is the cutoff? Is it a card, a logbook, a computer record, or some combination of all of them. The ops I use in the keys require AOW for the deeper stuff unless an instructor or guide is being used. I do not think everyone should be made to do dives that everyone can do. Majority rules with me. Putting inexperienced OW divers on this trip sounds like pure selfishness on the part of the trip organizer. He may have needed to fill some spots to make it go. He did not inform them of the type of dive this was. If he did not know he should not have been on it himself. Make the unqualified sit it out and do an easier second dive. Any compensation or apologies needs to come from the organizer not the op. And finally on any vessel the captain is God. What he says goes. He is the one responsible for the safety of those aboard his vessel. Just as any diver may call a dive at any time a boat captain may call a trip or any portion of it if he believes it will endanger the vessel, other pasengers, or the crew. Had a problem developed down there he and his staff would have needed to respond in some way, possibly placing themselves in danger for no good reason. Good call cap. I'd dive with him anytime and feel at ease as a result of this. Bet Mr 2 post does not come back either.

 

[BlueWaterDiving]

Why should the op. update the webb site??? If bwilcher was a board member they could have been reading all about the keys and how the work. Join the SP just to *****.

 

[John_B]

The dive op doesn't have to update their website if they don't want to. It might prevent future misunderstandings if they did, but they are free to do as they please -- even if it means having to periodically defend themselves on SB after someone like bwilcher posts his complaints all over the interwebs.

John

 

[Bratface]

I dived (dove, doved,...) with 2 instabuddies on the Grove some years ago (2003)
Since then, I made these conclusions:

I dont trust instabuddies until I see them diving
C-cards alone dont mean anything
More experienced does not always mean safer
they let anyone dive on the Grove

I agree with you. My insta-buddies would not go deeper than 90 feet yet had no reservations about attempting wreck penetration (without a reel). My vigorous shaking my head "no" and shaking my finger at them stopped that nonsense. The man kept checking his girlfriend's gauges (she was clueless), and gave me the "*#%# Girl Diver" look when we surfaced. However, "girl diver" was glad she didn't have to rescue either of their behinds.

 

[Red_5]

Why should the op. update the webb site??? If bwilcher was a board member they could have been reading all about the keys and how the work. Join the SP just to *****.

now it's the original posters fault because he didn't come to SB to find out what the real scoop was on a particular place????


never mind that the Dive Ops' website is a bit vague as already mentioned.

Is the onus on SB to set the record straight and clarify the Dive Ops policy or is it theirs?

 

[BlueWaterDiving]

All I'm saying is that if that where SP members there is so may post about this on the keys. That if they would have done a pretrip check. Like they where taught. I teach all my student to check all the stuff before they go.