Is this a dumb setup?

[LG Diver]

Hi all. I'm new to the board, though I've been lurking for a while and learning a lot. Thanks to everyone for all the excellent info on this site.

I currently have a 19 cu ft Al pony and a Zeagle Envoy reg that I mount on the main tank upside down (so I can reach the valve easier) using an x-bracket and cam strap. I have the reg from the pony on a bungee around my neck. Up to now I've been renting regulators, so I've also had an octo clipped to the BCD, but I'm getting ready to buy a Zeagle Flathead VI and I'm contemplating not putting an octo on it since I have the reg from the pony as my octo. I'd put a 7' hose on the primary reg, so that's the one I'd donate in an OOA situation. I plan to always dive with the pony so this setup would be consistent. Can anyone advise why this setup would not be a smart way to go? The way I see it, this is effectively like diving with independent doubles- just one of the doubles is a bit smaller

FWIW- I'm also planning on buying a bp/w soon and eventually a dry suit. When I finally get in a dry suit I'll probably go with manifolded doubles, but while diving wet (dbl 7mm) I'd use this setup.

Edit- I should add that I'm Nitrox-certified, so oftentimes the primary tank will be nitrox and the pony will always be air. Does this affect the answer to the above? I figure, if there's an OOA the dive's over and we're headed up pronto, so switching from nitrox to air shouldn't matter at that point.

Thanks,
John

 

[dulldiver]

A 5' hose would be more appropriate for a single tank setup.

 

[Diver0001]

A 5' hose would be more appropriate for a single tank setup.

It would? Hmm..... Don't believe everything you hear on the internet, mate. The 5ft hose recommendation assumes a particular context and it doesn't work out of context.

I'd say *if* you learn how to properly route the 7ft hose it's not in the way and perfectly acceptable with any configuration you're likely to use. LG Diver also mentioned that he'll be moving to a BP/Wing and drysuit configuration and in my experience a 5ft hose is too short to be routed properly with a drysuit on.

LG, just one more point about the pony thing. I wouldn't eliminate the octopus. If you rig it like Hogarthian the octopus isn't in the way. In order to ensure that the pony doesn't empty itself you'll need to leave it closed until you need it. If you need to stand off your primary to another diver then you'll first need to open the pony and retreive the regulator, which, in my mind would take too long when you're faced with an emergency. That's why you need to ahve the octopus ready to use at every moment.

R..

 

[Quarrior]

Ever since I first bought my gear I have used the 7 foot hose on a single tank when diving both wet and dry. Personally I can't imagine diving anything else.

As an experiment and to demonstrate the advantages of the 7 ft hose some friends who had the standard rec hose setup and I did some OOA drills. They soon discovered the advantage of the long hose and converted.

 

[spectrum]

Setting the long primary hose asside a 19CF pony is not much of an air supply if you find yourself making moderately deep dives. I would keep an alternate second stage your pimay cylinder, that is where you will usually have most of your available air. The full 19 is equal to an AL80 with 750 PSI.

Pete

 

[diverryan]

Ever since I first bought my gear I have used the 7 foot hose on a single tank when diving both wet and dry. Personally I can't imagine diving anything else.

As an experiment and to demonstrate the advantages of the 7 ft hose some friends who had the standard rec hose setup and I did some OOA drills. They soon discovered the advantage of the long hose and converted.

That is a good experiment to try. It really shotw how short standard recreational hoses are. I completely agree with Quarrior on having the longer 7' hose.

 

[LG Diver]

LG, just one more point about the pony thing. I wouldn't eliminate the octopus. If you rig it like Hogarthian the octopus isn't in the way. In order to ensure that the pony doesn't empty itself you'll need to leave it closed until you need it. If you need to stand off your primary to another diver then you'll first need to open the pony and retreive the regulator, which, in my mind would take too long when you're faced with an emergency. That's why you need to ahve the octopus ready to use at every moment.

R..

Hi Diver0001. Not sure I follow. Are you suggesting I sling the pony like a stage instead of on the tank with the x-bracket? If not, if I sling the octo Hogarthian, where does the pony reg go? BTW- I do currently dive with the pony valve closed. I turn it on at the surface to charge the line, then turn the valve off. By having the tank mounted upside down I can easily reach the valve and turn it on. I make a point of practicing turning the valve on and switching to the pony on the safety stop of the last dive of the day and I can do this pretty easily- granted it's not in a panic situation, but I don't think that the time required to reach back and turn on the valve is unreasonable. It's certainly faster than the time it would take to grab my buddy's octo if I were out of air with no pony.

 

[Nemrod]

I don't understand what your doing actually. An octapus is not an alternate air supply, it is an extra second stage for handing off to an OOA buddy. It provides essentially zero redundancy. Therefore, a 19cf pony with a seperate and complete regulator does provide full redundancy even if the air supply is minimal for deep use. So, if buddy diving I would keep my octapus most likely but if your talking about solo then I would get rid of it. As to recreational length hoses vs tech length hoses you will note that the bungeed regulator on a tech rig is considered to be standard length or shorter. I am experimenting with a side slung 19 pony right now, I am still trying to figure certain aspects out but I am starting to like it. Yesterday after my swim workout I put my scooter in the water with the slung 19 and BP/wing with aluminum 80, 40 inch primary and standard bungee octa. I was concerned with the way the slung tank would ride with the scooter. I was surprised to discover that the slung tank streamlines nicely and does not interfere with operation of the DPV. I also practiced deploying the pony regulator, it is quick and effortless and with a standard length hose it is about right though I may add a swivel connection at the second. I am not saying this is best or even good, it is just what I am toying with now. One of my reasons, to be up front for the pony, I solo dive and I also generally use double hose regulators. While most of my double hose units can support an octapus for solo diving I am thinking the additional redundancy of the pony negates the extra contraption of the octapus. For buddy diving however I will keep the octapus, double hose primary, in this case the OOA buddy gets the bungee octapus on 40 inch hose, this does have a swivel fitting for good presentation to the OOA diver. I like the way the swivel fitting equipped second stage on a 40 inch hose tucks under my arm and it works well with the DPV and I don't feel encumbered with anything wrapped around me and tucked here and there. At some point in the future I may change my mind. N

 

[LG Diver]

Setting the long primary hose asside a 19CF pony is not much of an air supply if you find yourself making moderately deep dives. I would keep an alternate second stage your pimay cylinder, that is where you will usually have most of your available air. The full 19 is equal to an AL80 with 750 PSI.

Pete

Hi Pete. Thanks for the reply. I guess it depends on what "moderately deep" means to you, but in general I'd agree that the 19 is too small for anything much below about 80-90 ft, but most of my dives are no deeper than that at the moment. I guess once I buy the bp/w I might buy a 30 or 40 cu ft as the pony and sling it like a stage for any dive where I'm planning on going deeper than that, but since I'm renting jacket-style BCD's currently that wasn't really an option at the time I bought the pony, so I had to go tank-mounted.

 

[Diver0001]

Hi Diver0001. Not sure I follow. Are you suggesting I sling the pony like a stage instead of on the tank with the x-bracket?

Well..... No. I personally like it better slung but I don't think there's anything wrong with hanging it on the tank like that. The most important thing is what you're already doing, which is to leave it closed until you need it.

I don't know how you're hanging the pony reg, but any way you do it, I think the extra step of having to open the valve is something you need to consider carefully.

If not, if I sling the octo Hogarthian, where does the pony reg go?

I don't know where you should put it if your pony is attached to the tank. I dive doubles with a stage so my "pony" (actually an AL-72) is slung and the reg is attached to the stage until I need it.

Also, if I follow your thinking, it loos like the way you're using the pony, you're really addressing a redundancy problem, as opposed to a bail-out problem. Perhaps you'd find it cleaner to just go to small set of doubles (like twin 72's) and do away with the pony altogether.....

Spectrum had a good point for you too but I think that it applies best if you're using a Y or H valve on your main tank.

R..