Is the Deep cert really necessary?

[theminidiver]

Hello, I'm a Rescue Diver with some specialties (Nitrox, Equipment, Wreck), but I have never dove below 27m.
In order to dive below 30m, do I really need to have the Deep certification?
Is this a required certification to dive to deeper depths?
For example, do dive centers only allow divers to dive at certain sites if they are certified to dive up to 40m?

Best regards,

 

[tursiops]

In order to dive below 30m, do I really need to have the Deep certification?

Depends on your dive operator. Also, a lot more can go wrong -- and faster -- below 30m, so some training is a good idea.

Is this a required certification to dive to deeper depths?

Depends on your dive operator. It is a good idea, even if not required.

For example, do dive centers only allow divers to dive at certain sites if they are certified to dive up to 40m?

Depends on your dive operator.

 

[Rob9876]

Not actually necessary, but in recent years a number of dive ops (especially in the U.S.) have started requiring AOW or Deep for certain dives with them (some dive ops also require Nitrox for certain dives).

 

[mcohen1021]

Some resorts like Sandals (Negril) required divers to be AoW to go below 60 ft.

I do not think divers were limited to 60 ft by PADI when I was certified in 1989, but I could be wrong. As far as I know the deepest we were "certified for" was 140 ft max (as shown on the tables). I could be wrong, but that was my memory of it.

 

[tursiops]

Some resorts like Sandals (Negril) required divers to be AoW to go below 60 ft.

I do not think divers were limited to 60 ft by PADI when I was certified in 1989, but I could be wrong. As far as I know the deepest we were "certified for" was 140 ft max (as shown on the tables). I could be wrong, but that was my memory of it.

PADI certifies to 130 (not 140....that is just the tables), but recommends OW be 60 ft max and AOW be 100 ft max because that is what you will you have been trained for. Then you exceed those recommended max depths only with more training and experience. It is hard to document experience, log books can be lost, and can be faked. Training provides at least some proof via the cert card that goes with it. So an OW card can't be used to prove experience, nor to prove training beyond 60 ft. A Deep Diver card "proves" training to 130 ft, but a prereq for Deep is AOW. So AOW is the key additional training needed today, driven strongly by liability concerns. AOW and Nitrox are basically today's necessary certifications.

 

[mcohen1021]

PADI certifies to 130 (not 140....that is just the tables), but recommends OW be 60 ft max and AOW be 100 ft max because that is will you have been trained for. They exceed those recommended max depths only with more training and experience. It is hard to document experience, log books can be lost, and can be faked. Training provides at least some proof via the cert card that goes with it. So an OW card can't be used to prove experience, nor to prove training beyond 60 ft. A Deep Dier card "proves" training to 130 ft, but a prereq for Deep is AOW. So AOW is the key additional training needed today, driven by liability concerns, AOW and Nitrox are basically today's necessary certifications.

Good thoughts., and I do believe 130 is max now,. But the 1989 part was the key phrase in my post, - I thought it was deeper to 140 back then. I have my original paper text books from 1989, i guess i could check that.

I know alot in the classes has changed since then, I have not worked a class since 2000 or so, only dive on vacation these days

 

[scubadada]

Hello, I'm a Rescue Diver with some specialties (Nitrox, Equipment, Wreck), but I have never dove below 27m.
In order to dive below 30m, do I really need to have the Deep certification?
Is this a required certification to dive to deeper depths?
For example, do dive centers only allow divers to dive at certain sites if they are certified to dive up to 40m?

Best regards,

I took AOW and Deep Diver in 2004. Since then, many operators have required AOW for a dive, none have ever asked to see my Deep Diver, regardless of depth.

Deep Diver was not worthless, but has never been required for any dive. For Deep Diver #4, my son and I planned and executed a deep north wall dive in Grand Cayman. Our instructor waited for us on the shallower reef near the boat. This was around dive 100, a confidence builder for independent diving.

 

[mcohen1021]

Deep Diver was not worthless, but has never been required for any dive.

Ever been to a Sandals Resort? lol

 

[boulderjohn]

I think a lot depends upon the individual student, and a lot depends upon the circumstances of the class.

Some people adapt to that level of depth easily, but for others, that depth is a really big deal. I have had AOW students for whom the biggest learning they got from the AOW deep dive was that they needed more training on deep dives before doing them without a professional guiding them.

I think it is the depth itself that makes a difference, including especially the rate at which you go through their air. That brings me to the second point. In a lot of places, it is hard to get to the maximum depths for that class. For that reason, a range of depths is allowed, including depths nowhere near the maximum. If that is the case, I wouldn't take the class. I firmly believe that for a deep dive class to be worthwhile, you need to dive reasonably close to those maximums.

 

[tursiops]

Good thoughts., and I do believe 130 is max now,. But the 1989 part was the key phrase in my post, - I thought it was deeper to 140 back then. I have my original paper text books from 1989, i guess i could check that.

I know alot in the classes has changed since then, I have not worked a class since 2000 or so, only dive on vacation these days

I'll be interested to see your 1989 materials. The earliest I have on my shelf is Version 1.0 of he PADI OW Diver Manual from 1990. Under "Depth Limits" an General Rules of the Recreational Dive Planner on page 199 it clearly describes 60 ft as the Novice Level, 100 ft as the Recommended Level and 130 ft as the Absolute Level, and says limit your elf to 60, then with greater training and experience limit yourself to 100. I wonder if there is some confusion between 130 ft and 40m (132 ft) leading to "140" in one's memory?

The AOW Manual from the same period (Vol 1, 1991) has a discussion on p55 on "deep diving," which it says begins at 60 ft, continues to 110 ft as the "optimal maximum recreational depth limit" and then goes to 130 ft as the "absolute maximum recreational depth limit."

The earliest reference I have on this is Owen Lee's "The Complete Illustrated Guide to Snorkel and Deep Diving" from 1963 (predating PADI and 31 years before the publication of the RDP). Owen was one of Cousteau's divers, and ended his career as an oceanographer at the Naval Lab at Point Loma CA. Chapter 11 includes a discussion of no-decompression depth limits. He points out that above 130 ft is where the most interesting stuff is, and that below 110 ft your single-tank air supply begins to be insufficient and you are risking narcosis.