Is "slave labor" a rite of passage for DM candidate?

[Hawkwood]

I carry tanks, I hose down and sweep the pool deck, I fill tanks, I take out the garbage and recycling in the classroom when the bins are full, etc. Everyone pitches in to get the "job" done. I lead by example and expect my DMCs and DMs to do the same. There are no "internships" where I teach. The DMCs have paid for their instruction.

When I was a DMC and then a DM, I worked at it. I also made sure that I made the Instructor's life such that he/she could concentrate on the students. Heck I'd even get their gear ready for them.

Our current DMC class are a riot - baking cookies and bringing coffee, etc. However, I also understand the demographics and the differences in locale will influence the duties and/or behaviouries expected or anticipated out of a DMC or DM.

Bill

 

[boulderjohn]

This might be why the OP got weird reactions when he was asking shops about "slave labor". If those menial tasks are normally done by salaried instructors and DMs, then it's not slave labor, it's part of the job.

When people are part of the salaried staff of a dive shop, they do a whole lot of different things. Some of what they do is maintenance. Some of it is cleaning. Some of it is selling gear. Some of it is being a DM.

A DMC is learning how to do the DM part; the DMC is not learning how to do the mopping the floor part.

 

[DevonDiver]

A DMC is learning how to do the DM part; the DMC is not learning how to do the mopping the floor part.

John... that's pretty much the 'heart' of the discussion. Some operators offer more than the DM part... they offer an industry internship that offers applicable exposure to employment in the job of a divemaster, rather than just providing the skills and experience needed for the qualification as a divemaster.

There are regional differences in divemaster employment - in your area, divemasters might fill tanks, maintain gear, assist instructors and guide divers. In other areas, their job specifications may include non-diving related tasks, such as cleaning, sales etc.''

If a DM candidate is taking the course to prepare for employment as a divemaster, then they benefit from exposure/experience gained in job (as defined by local practices). If they aren't preparing for employment, then they are taking the course merely to gain a certification in the skills and knowledge of a divemaster as a diving level.

Qualification versus employment - that's not a phenomenon isolated to the scuba industry.

 

[bracko]

I think it's the question of paid/non paid really.

I don't get paid but i do get perks. I'd be happy to do most things except mowing and cleaning toilets. pool maintenance isn't unreasonable...

>How many "internships" REQUIRE that the intern PAY for the experience?

most in sydney. We did ours over 8 or so weekends and paid a lot for the course.

 

[amp0611]

Now if I am asked to help mop the floors or clean the restrooms…in the true nature of a team environment…than I have no issues with that. If I am asked to do the same just because someone thinks lesser of me for being a DMC; I am not having any of it.

This is exactly where I stand. I have hopefully made it clear in my other posts that I am not resistant to doing menial work, and I actually want to get as much experience as I can doing as many useful things as I can, which is why I am choosing an internship rather than just an express course. I guess it comes down to the respect issue and not being taken advantage of. For the sake of learning, gaining experience, and making a good impression in case I choose to pursue employment, I will clean as many toilets as I feel will benefit me, for my own good. But I will not pay $1000 to be told that I have to do it or to be snubbed if I politely refuse.

I think Devondiver hit the nail on the head:

there is a big difference between 'being exposed to' a task and 'being expected to fulfill a task'. Trying something out, for a limited basis, in the spirit of learning is acceptable. Being responsible for fulfilling an otherwise permanent function, in lieu of salaried staff, is not.

And to answer dumpsterdivers question about how many internshipsare out there where ou have to pay to do them. MOST! I have been looking into the DM internship for 2 years now and have asked around a lot of different places, by distance and in person, in many parts of the world. I have come across very very few internships where you can work in exchange for the certification. Most of them you have to pay for, on top of doing a lot of unpaid work. Most internships I've seen run at least $1000 not inlc material costs and are between 4-6 weeks long. This does not include your food, accommodation, or anything else, this is the fee for taking part in the program.

Ok, so great opinions everyone, thank you, you have all been very helpful. The varying opinions have taught me that what I am looking for is out there, so I guess now my challenge is finding the right match. So, does anyone have any more suggestions of questions I can ask potential dive schools that will help me determine their philosophy on this issue? Any more general ideas that will help in my search for my perfect match? Thanks!

 

[weaserm99]

---------- Post added at 12:05 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:56 AM ----------

The shop I used to work at never had the divemaster candidates cleaning wetsuits or toilets or working around the shop, those were my tasks as a shop employee.

If I hadn't been interning and then working at the shop I would have never cleaned any wetsuits during my divemaster course.

Now in terms when it comes to DM's being slaves I used to joke with a DMC that I was instructing that DM's should be called IB's or instructors b*tch, cause as a DM they were always going to get stuck with the crap tasks ie. tying floats to training platforms, logging everyone in and out of the water, getting stuck trying to get the slow poke student in the water.

Do those tasks suck yeah they do and I can say that even as an instructor I got stuck doing them a few times when I was the low man on the totem pole that day.

But as I told that same DMC when you work your way up the ladder you don't get tasked with all the crap jobs and if you choose to go through an instructor course you then get to pass the crap jobs on to someone else. And to be honest when I have to choose which DM I want helping me with a class or some open water dives I always call the one that I know is not going to bitch about having to do the crappy jobs, and trust me I usually only call 1 DM cause I know how they are going to work and they know exactly what they need to do.

 

[electrix]

Amp , what are your expectations when you become a DM?

 

[Oldbear]

...cause as a DM they were always going to get stuck with the crap tasks ie. tying floats to training platforms, logging everyone in and out of the water, getting stuck trying to get the slow poke student in the water...

Weaserm99,

How can you call tasks such as "logging everyone in and out of the water," CRAP TASKS? I just finished the PADI DM On-line course and in the videos it CLEARLY shows the DMs who were logging divers in & out with great big, giant, happy smiles on their faces...just like Christmas morning in the home of the "Brady Bunch". :madnoel::chuckle:

 

[Oldbear]

...So, does anyone have any more suggestions of questions I can ask potential dive schools that will help me determine their philosophy on this issue? Any more general ideas that will help in my search for my perfect match? Thanks!

Amp,

I would ask for recommendation from past students if you have a school in mind or list your expectations and place a new Post on ScubaBoard.

When I was looking for my DM training facility, my choice was based on numerous recommnedations I received here in ScubaBoard worldwide. I contacted several of these individuals and had nice discussions with them. Once I narrowed my field down of training facilities, I made a list of what I wanted out of the course and only then did I make contact with the different dive centers. After many emails and phone conversations, I will make my site visit in four weeks; if I don't like what I see, I can still walk away. The nice thing about my destination I choose there are two other highly recommended schools there I can choose from or I can just take in the diving. I am in no rush to take the course and collect another C-Card; it is the education that I am after.

Good luck and I hope you find a good fit for your expectations.

~ME~

 

[TMHeimer]

DMCs should do DM stuff and pay. DMs should do DM stuff and get paid. Now there's an old can of worms.