Is Side Mount the new DIR??? Building resentment towards us as a group...

[Razorista]

I don't think even the DIR community misses them .

But that is the reputation people mean when using the term DIR in conversation.

 

[Pullmyfinger]

Watching one manage a long narrow hall on a wreck is actually pretty entertaining.

Indeed. It isn't always the best tool for the job.

 

[The Chairman]

Indeed. It isn't always the best tool for the job.

If the only thing you know how to use is a hammer, everything becomes a nail.

 

[Razorista]

If the only thing you know how to use is a hammer, everything becomes a nail.

I really like that phrase NetDoc, but have come to understand it differently.

We only have a single nail: unrestricted stays under water.

For years now we have been using our 'Multitools' (backmount) to try to hammer it in.

Sidemount is the hammer to solve our problem, an easy to use tool especially developed for handling nails.

To stay with your analogy everyone has the chance now to use the hammer before the nail (your spine, neck and hips) get's damaged so badly by the multitool that a hammer will not help you with that broken and bent nail and you will have to rip it out and take a different one (= choose a different hobby).

In my opinion there is a place for backmount with powerful people doing powerful dives, people who can carry the weight of giant tanks.
People with a certain mindset too.
Special dives that require unique equipment.
Perhaps there is also a place in basic training with cheap single tanks and basic regulators.

But everything in between is sidemount territory now.

Take your wreck and narrow passage (and probably narrower doors and hatches) example:
With sidemount you take one tank forward and sacrifice length for less width.
Or you drop one tank at the first passage and count on teamwork for redundancy.
Or, on shallow sites, go in single tank from the beginning.
You could use narrow tanks for the dive, 4x40cft would be the extreme example.
Or just press the tanks under your body with your arms and temporarily frontmount them.
...

The well configured backmount diver however will most likely have to stop at some restrictions the sidemounter might pass easily and will have more problems in a collapse that restricts the exit.

 

[kensuf]

I dove sidemount exclusively for a year on a home-built rig back in the late 90s. I did it because we were diving small caves out of a canoe, not because I was trying to make a fashion statement or run with the herd. Over the next month I'm going to be playing with a few commercially available sidemount rigs just to familiarize myself with them.

I dove a nomad LTZ Friday. I didn't die. It was an OK rig, nothing to complain about with it.

I'm borrowing an Armadillo and Razor for the next two dives.

One thing I remembered disliking about sidemount is that when I'm exiting a cave I still have to keep monitoring my pressure gauge and switching -- with doubles when I'm exiting I never need to look at the gauge.

I also dislike multiple trips to the water.

I still think sidemount is not appropriate for the majority of diving scenarios.

 

[The Chairman]

I also dislike multiple trips to the water.

Necessity is the mother of invention.

I still think sidemount is not appropriate for the majority of diving scenarios.

Or possibly the majority of divers. Some will embrace it, many will avoid it for whatever reason and a few will take it to the next level. I've been told that side mount (as well as DIR) is a holistic approach to diving. Fine. Glad it works for you as it does for me. Just don't be ass-holistic about it. Dive and let dive.

 

[DevonDiver]

One thing I remembered disliking about sidemount is that when I'm exiting a cave I still have to keep monitoring my pressure gauge and switching -- with doubles when I'm exiting I never need to look at the gauge.

Is this a dislike of sidemount; or a dislike of being less experienced, or less familiar, with sidemount?

Obviously, frequency of diving and total cumulative dives are the important components of experience and familiarity; rather than the date you first tried it etc etc

I ask merely because I've noted that divers who use sidemount very frequently tend to develop a level of gas awareness on a par with backmount diving. Gas levels become just as predictable, regulator switches become an autonomic function etc...

To make a relative comparison between two options, there needs to be a relative equality in personal skill, familiarity and experience between those two options. Otherwise, I believe, there is always a (logical) tendency to favor what you are most familiar with.

Whilst it would be easy to assume that gas awareness should be a transferable skill between different systems (backmount, sidemount, CCR etc), I believe that the differences are significant enough to cause some disharmony; especially in very experienced divers who enjoy autonomic familiarity with one dominant system.

If an experienced diver enjoys a 'second-nature' level of experience with backmount; then they will feel some noticeable disadvantage when using sidemount, as it is not 'second-nature' to them. A less experienced diver would not find the change so disadvantageous, they do not expect - or understand - the 'second-nature' level of familiarity with any equipment. For the same reasons, a diver that used sidemount exclusively would develop that 'second-nature' bond with the equipment over time.

 

[The Chairman]

Is this a dislike of sidemount; or a dislike of being less experienced, or less familiar, with sidemount?

Why not just take him at his word? He just doesn't like it. Why the need to make it an issue of his skill and/or acumen? This is precisely the condescending attitude that pisses back mounters off. It's no wonder you deny the existence of this phenomenon among side mounters since you just don't see it in yourself.

 

[DevonDiver]

The point being made was an explanation of why an experienced diver with one dominant system might feel disadvantaged in a different system.

I did not dispute Kensuf's perspectives or opinions; nor did I raise issue with his skill or acumen as a diver. The essence of my point was that it was precisely his high skill,and expectations, with backmount that caused a perception that sidemount was more problematic for him.

I've noted this issue with numerous, highly experienced divers. It is a mistake to assume that a second-nature, intuitive, skill-set with one system should translate immediately to another system. It is also wrong to blame the systems for any disparity of experience.

The same applies in reverse, for a 'second-nature' sidemount diver who occasionally uses backmount.

It also applies for OC versus CCR diving. But, for some reason, CCR is accepted as requiring specific experience acquisition; wheras there are divers who deny that sidemount expertise requires the same familiarity acquisition before it becomes intuitive.

For example, I don't get to dive CCR anywhere near as often as I'd like. Therefore, my opinion, is that CCR diving is far more problematic and less intuitive than OC diving. That, however, isn't to say I feel that CCR is worse than OC. Nor does it imply that CCR cannot be used in situations where I (singularly) find it difficult or less optimal. I merely recognize that it is not a dominant or second-nature approach for me. I refrain from judging it based on my level of intuitive (or not) operation.

You can't compare experiences using a dominant versus an occasional system. To do so ignores the relative user expertise between the two systems. It'd be egotistical to assume that expertise is directly transferable between systems....or that equal familiarity can be maintained in two systems; when one is significantly more used than the other.

What I'm talking about is REALISTIC EXPECTATION MANAGEMENT.

@NetDoc - you over-react again because you assume a negative objective to a post and it causes you to overlook the rational and balanced issue presented. I might suggest this is a possible cause as to why someone might feel the need to post a tread on this topic in the first place.

 

[The Chairman]

@NetDoc - you over-react again because you assume a negative objective to a post and it causes you to overlook the rational and balanced issue presented. I might suggest this is a possible cause as to why someone might feel the need to post a tread on this topic in the first place.

I felt a need to post on this topic, because I have seen your attitude at many dive sites and even posted here on ScubaBoard. You feel that it can't be that they don't like something that you like: they have some sort of deficit to have that opinion. Your last post is a perfect example of what I'm talking about. Rather than try to understand the problem that you're adding to, you choose rather to deny it. When shown clearly how your words come across, you choose to find fault with the thread and the OP. It's typical denial rather than trying to resolve the problem. It's a matter of acceptance. Just because someone doesn't dive like you doesn't make them a lesser diver. I have no problems moving between side mount, back mount or even CCR. I enjoy all three! It's as easy as selecting a ratchet with a 1/2" socket for one job, a 13mm wrench for another or torx for a third. Look into my tool box and you'll find that most of my chrome is Snap On, impacts (black) are Mac and Matco fills in many holes not covered by the first two. I could couch this in terms of quality, which would be true, but the reality of it is that I prefer the mix that I have. They feel better to me, but might not to you.

Not everyone likes sidemount. They don't want to learn how to make it work when back mount easily accomplishes their task. Sure, anyone can make it work, but why bother? There is nothing sacred about side mount. It's just a tool with as many benefits and limitations as all the other tools. I chose side mount due to physical limitations. I have arthritis from working with my hands all my life. I've had two surgeries on my ankles which can be problematic. Getting in and out of caves with sidemount makes sense to me. I'm not going to do passages where I have to swing tanks around. In fact, almost all the passages I hope to frequent can be done in back mount. I know, because I've done a number of them in back mount already. I prefer side mount in these conditions but I'm not going to insist that everyone else do the same thing.