Is it too early for me to get a rebreather??

[Mr.X]

You have to admit that the Drager is a much easier machine to operate than the Azimut or others. Drager is (I consider) an idiot proof machine. If any proble just bail out OC! Duh.... Also u have a depht restriction (if properly used). Any moron can use it just watch your oxygauge! back up with a VR3 or... Try that with the inspiration. First you have to calibrate and bla bla bla. I personally think that anyone with a nitrox cert can use a Dolphin. Not so much with others rebreathers.
As for the Inspiration Have you ever taken one apart? Let me tell u it is a real pain in the ******. specially when the sensors go caput! The Drager you can take it apart blind folded! Been there done that. I think for a person who wants to jump in and try rebreathers the Drager is an excellent machine to start. Hell you can even get a PADI cert. for it (LOL)

Happy Diving

T

I beg to differ. Both units require varying degrees of knowledge and respect. Different in operation, but respect always necessary. Folks have bit it on a Drager Dolphin SCR too. If you have trouble on either the first thing to do is go to bailout and sort things out.

Both require absorbant packing protocols, pre-dive tests, monitoring the loop and post-dive disinfecting. You even mention the Oxygauge. That's an active sensor. Given the operational range of the Drager Dolphin SCR it's really not too much better than a set of doubles. Why bother?

Here's one for you - which breathers better in all positions - an Inspiration CCR or a SCR Dolphin?

 

[webediving]

Mr X
Look we are talking of a person who is getting started. He wants to use a rebreather. Good for him. You tell me. Is it better to start him up with an Ispiration. I do not think so.
I think the Drager is an easier machine to handle that the yellow turtle. So what about packing.... Any rebreather you use you have to pack unless you use the new cardboard type scrubbers. Any way what degree do you have to have to tap a canister and check for firmness... a PhD?
As to cleaning all rebreathers need to be cleaned. The less parts the less cleaning. In the yellow turtle you have to be extra carefull with the electronics. You get water in the O2 sensors... well you are in for a treat! In the Drager after you pull the sensor.. well you know how to clean dishes? well no diferent.
As for the pre dive protocol well... The Drager you only need to veryfy the flow, vacum leaks and direction of flow (in case you connect the hoses bacwards). It is even color coded, red to red black to black!(idiot proof). As for the flow, hell they even make them where all you have to do is plug the mass flow gauge and check if it is in range. If it does not fall withing range Do not dive the rig. Take it to an authorized service center. Yes the orifices get cloged but most of the time is because poor maintenance. I expect that any responsible rebreather diver plans ahead and makes shure all equipmet is functioning properly before diving the rig. If not soon you will be sorry!

As to calibration...You do not need to calibrate anything, just the oxygauge and all you have to do is make shure it fall withing the limits of the mix. How hard is that? You have to anylize your mix prior to using it if you are nitrox cert. You know how to use an Alpha one well gues what ... you can calibrate an oxygauge!

I do not want to sound *****y.I just think that we as instructors put the fear of God in the use of rebreathers. What are we trying to do keep it all to ourselves..... Come on. They did the same thing to me when I started....Oh you get in a rebreather you are going to die. Well I have bee diving it for a while and I am still here. I do respect it but I also respect OC as well. People die using OC too, mostly human error or just plain stupidity! Well guess what? Read on about CCR/SCR fatalities most of them are because of human error too. Not machine malfunction.
I just think that we as instructor should have the responsibility expand the diving comunity and scarying people is not the way to go.

I tell you I rather carry around a Drager and a bail out than a set of doubles any day. We are getting older and lugging around a pair of doubles is not my Idea of fun (my daughter told me that)

As for the breathing part you should know that a front mounted set of lungs Inspo) will make exhalation harder and the rear set of lung will make inhalation harder (Drager). Personally like breathing my yellow turtle. Did I past your test?

Bets reguards,
Tony Cerezo

 

[Mr.X]

Mr X

As to calibration...You do not need to calibrate anything, just the oxygauge and all you have to do is make shure it fall withing the limits of the mix. How hard is that? You have to anylize your mix prior to using it if you are nitrox cert. You know how to use an Alpha one well gues what ... you can calibrate an oxygauge!

I do not want to sound *****y.I just think that we as instructors put the fear of God in the use of rebreathers. What are we trying to do keep it all to ourselves..... Come on. They did the same thing to me when I started....Oh you get in a rebreather you are going to die. Well I have bee diving it for a while and I am still here. I do respect it but I also respect OC as well. People die using OC too, mostly human error or just plain stupidity! Well guess what? Read on about CCR/SCR fatalities most of them are because of human error too. Not machine malfunction.
I just think that we as instructor should have the responsibility expand the diving comunity and scarying people is not the way to go.

I tell you I rather carry around a Drager and a bail out than a set of doubles any day. We are getting older and lugging around a pair of doubles is not my Idea of fun (my daughter told me that)

As for the breathing part you should know that a front mounted set of lungs Inspo) will make exhalation harder and the rear set of lung will make inhalation harder (Drager). Personally like breathing my yellow turtle. Did I past your test?

Bets reguards,
Tony Cerezo

I still wish you knew what you were recommending. Also you are intimating that as instructors we wish to hold the rebreather on a high altar attainable to the "Gods of Diving". That's your take, not mine. From your obvious ire I'm assuming that brimstone preaching is right up your alley. Suggest a Drager to someone. Not my concern.

Any diver wishing to invest the time and energy into rebreather diving will probably do some degree of homework before deciding on an appropriate piece of kit based on either mission parameters, or ego. Addtionally, a diver with the basics skillsets to use an SCR can easily migrate towards a CCR given they understand the basics involved with sensor technology, minor electronics and closed loop physics. I have seen more than my share of dissatisfied Drager users move towards CCR's in the past. They dislike he boxiness of the unit, the WOB, the cheesiness of some of components and in the end their conclusion is why did I bother in the first place? Name on your hand how many satisfied users there are of the Drager (bag of ...) Ray.

As per WOB of CL's there is something called a Centroid and positioning near this "sweet spot?. As per passing the test...I not into brimstone tonight. Sorry I bruised your ego.

 

[webediving]

Look.the man wants to use a rebreather. Can he or not? Simple question. He wants to use a Drager.. safe to dive OK. I think (IMHO) it is a good intro machine. Can he use it? I think so. So wish him luck and let him put some hr in a basic machine and then let him move into a CCR or whatever he wants later.
I feel from reading his post again that he is concerned if he can do it or not.I think he can. I do feel he does not have the 10K to spend in a bag. So a Drager for 2-3K is a good deal.
I am sorry you feel so stongly against the Drager. I dive my yellow turlte all the time and my daughter dive a Dolphing. She is happy and so am I.

As for my ego, sorry you feel like I am preaching to you. Not everyone has the money to spend 10k or more in a bag. I feel lucky I can!

BTW no offence taken!

Lets go diving sometime.......Life is good

Tony

 

[silent running]

Hi Tony, as I said before, there are other CCRs out there other than the Inspiration, which I wouldn't recomend to anyone. The Kiss units are no more complicated than the Drager, and the Sport Kiss is under $4000. IMHO, a stock Dolphin is just about worthless. All that work setting it up so you can blow out bubbles every 3rd breath for 90 minutes? A CCR converted Dolphin, now that's another story. And Over the Shoulder Lungs breathe better than Back Mounted CLs in any position, which you should know if you've dived both.
Why should anyone bother with an SCR Dolphin, spend the time, money and training for something which gives so few benefits, especially as compared to a simple passive addition CCR? Give me 1 good reason... -Andy

 

[BigJetDriver]

Okay, folks,

There is a lot of passion here, but not a lot of factual material.

In reality, you have to first make note of the kind of diving that you do, and the kind you want to do. You then have to decide which rebreather will fit the bill (literally) for your diving style and pocket.

You should first read a basic text such as "Mastering Rebreathers" by Jeff Bozanic, available from Best Publishing.

Next, you have to understand that SCR's are gas extenders, and are not very bubble-free. CCR's are gas mixing machines, and are almost bubble-free.

SCR's are expensive. CCR's are very expensive. The choice is yours, of course, but you do have to ask yourself if you are willing to pony up the bucks.

A factory re-hab Inspiration, which by the way is a good solid diving machine, will run around $5000 USD.

Plan to pay quite a bit more for the Megalodon, the Prism, or for the Evolution to name three examples. The eCCR's will actually break even in cost at about 200 hours of use IF you are diving using helium.

Whatever unit you think might fit your diving style, be sure you talk to people who own and dive that unit. See if you can find someone to let you do a try-out on the unit. Talk to the manufacturer. If you are serious about buying a unit, you can actually call up Peter or Shas Readey, for instance, and talk to them about the Prism. The same holds true for Leon Scamahorn, and the Meg. (Just remember that their time is valuable, and you need to be serious about it.)

You might also PM Caveseeker7 on this board, and let him steer you to some other internet resources.

Good luck in your search.

 

[BigJetDriver]

P.S.---As Mr. X points out, most instructors at the level of Rebreather Instructor work at trying to take the "mysticism" OUT of the subject. I teach the Inspiration, for instance, and agree with him that simplifying the subject is the better way to teach. Instructors do not like divers to be dealing with a reasonably complex diving machine, while trying to sort out mystical mumbo-jumbo at the same time!

BJD

 

[BigJetDriver]

P.P.S.---If you are interested in a Draeger Dolphin, check e-bay now. There is one, as well as an H-S Explorer, and various bits and bobs for sale. This is the real deal, since I know the seller and can vouch for him as a good man and reputable person. Check it out!

 

[padiscubapro]

P.P.S.---If you are interested in a Draeger Dolphin, check e-bay now. There is one, as well as an H-S Explorer, and various bits and bobs for sale. This is the real deal, since I know the seller and can vouch for him as a good man and reputable person. Check it out!

I'll second that.. Hes a good guiy to deal with..

 

[webediving]

SR,
I am aware that there is other SCR and CCR in the market. (looking at his post again) His question was wether it was too early to buy a RB. With 51-100 dives under his belt I think (IMHO) tha he is qualified to dive a Drager. If you ske me about the Insp that will be another story! I know by experience that the Drager is not the best machine in the market! But I think (IMHO) that the Drager is a great intro machine.

I am glad to find other instructors that share my thoughts. That rebreathers are not some magical box, and are willing to share their knoledge and entusiasm. I did not have that oportunity from my LDS. I was allways told "you are going to kill your self" The reason why I am a RB diver now is because of Jeff book "Understanding Rebreathers". Excellent book. It helped me get the "mistical hocus pocus" that I was allways fed by others and made me take the decion to go and get certified.
Thanks to all

Happy diving
T