Is is safe to dive throught the surf with a reg in your mouth?

[headhunter]

Since this is a safety question, I thought it would be appropriate to this new forum.

I just posted another question to another forum and commented that I thought is was unsafe to go through the surf with a regulator in your mouth.

I quickly found out that others did not hold this position which I thought was commonplace.

The reason for this belief is that you could have a 12 ft wave go over you taking you from let's say 10 ft over head to 2 ft overhead in a second. I believe that this could cause you to embolize. I'm not telling everyone to go out and dive in 12 ft surf, by the way.

I'm interested in hearing the opinions of others on this topic, because if I'm correct then it may save someone's life.

Does anyone else remember the reports of Diver's dying from this very thing? I seem to remember reports about some divers (specifically in Oxnard CA) in the '80s.

Christian

 

[archman]

With the surf scenarios you're describing, I would advise no. I can easily picture some dude embolizing under these conditions, screw that.

Most surf dives however should be considerably tamer. The regulator should be fine for those.

 

[scubasean]

Since this is a safety question, I thought it would be appropriate to this new forum.

I just posted another question to another forum and commented that I thought is was unsafe to go through the surf with a regulator in your mouth.

I quickly found out that others did not hold this position which I thought was commonplace.

The reason for this belief is that you could have a 12 ft wave go over you taking you from let's say 10 ft over head to 2 ft overhead in a second. I believe that this could cause you to embolize. I'm not telling everyone to go out and dive in 12 ft surf, by the way.

I'm interested in hearing the opinions of others on this topic, because if I'm correct then it may save someone's life.

Does anyone else remember the reports of Diver's dying from this very thing? I seem to remember reports about some divers (specifically in Oxnard CA) in the '80s.

Christian

I'm not sure I understand...If there are 12-foot waves, I generally don't dive....

And what does "going through the surf" mean? Are you beach diving in 12 ft waves?

If a 12-foot wave goes overhead while you are submerged, aren't you going from say...five feet deep to 17 feet to five feet again? So, you'd have to breathe in at the same time the wave is passing directly overhead to have the problem you describe, right? And, you are getting quite tossed around at the same time...

I do put my reg in my mouth when I do beach entries in surf, since I'm often by myself and want to be able to breathe if my head gets dunked...

 

[fdog]

For "recreational" shore diving, I always transition the surf zone with the reg in. This is to give me clean air if I get knocked down in the frothy, unbreathable water left after the wave has fallen down. Of course, this is pretty much limited to wave heights up to about 4'. This is also the method generally passed on to students.

In my diving community, the scenario of big waves = embolism is known and occasionally refered to by very experienced divers; the general recreational diver is usually unaware of it.

If you are experienced enough to deal with the big-wave entry, deal with the whopping surge at the dive site, and (especially) safely perform a surf exit, then you usually know of the hazards, including embolism.

I only entered in really "big surf" once, roughly 14-16', and I used a snorkle, with a hand on my reg. The entry wasn't that bad, and the exit was more apprehension than real difficulty. They later found the guy we were looking for at a bar.

So much is "it depends"; the bottom profile is definitely one of the factors. Long, gently sloping sand beaches are more at risk for a wave embolism than steeper, quick depth beaches.

All the best, James

 

[fdog]

Just remembered this, I did see a diver at Carmel River Beach that was in distress after getting knocked down. Had no air to breathe is they were rolled in the surf.

After getting dragged out, he still had the regulator mouthpiece in his mouth. The 2nd stage had been ripped from the mouthpiece.

Them waves can humble you.

All the best, James

 

[headhunter]

I'm not sure I understand...If there are 12-foot waves, I generally don't dive....

And what does "going through the surf" mean? Are you beach diving in 12 ft waves?

If a 12-foot wave goes overhead while you are submerged, aren't you going from say...five feet deep to 17 feet to five feet again? So, you'd have to breathe in at the same time the wave is passing directly overhead to have the problem you describe, right? And, you are getting quite tossed around at the same time...

I do put my reg in my mouth when I do beach entries in surf, since I'm often by myself and want to be able to breathe if my head gets dunked...

Sorry about the lack of clarity.

First, I think my example was too extreme with the size of the waves. I should have used 6 ft waves as an example instead of 12 ft. Most people would not go out through surf that rough. We used to do it as kids to practice getting through surf. I'm older and wiser now.

I think it's not unusual to have many smaller waves come into shore with the ocassional much larger wave as a surprise. I was just trying to drive home the difference in the water column above an individual as the wave passed.

But yes, the senario is just as you've described where one would be inhaling at the same time the wave was passing directly overhead. So you would go almost instantly to a shallower depth as the wave passed. It may in reality be only a 4 - 6 foot difference, but that is the main point.

Getting tossed around by the wave would be secondary. I'm under the impression that most people that are hit with a big wave will hold their breath. I'm completely willing to admit that the second point is simply conjecture on my part and that I don't really know what most people will do.

I had two dive instructors tell me that it was unsafe to go under the surf zone breathing on compressed air. One in '79 and one in '85. I thought that it was a commonly held belief, but I see that it is not.

Thanks.

Christian

 

[pasley]

I believe a more prevalent danger would be NOT having a regulator in your mouth and getting squashed to the ocean floor by a wave. I always have a regulator in my mouth when entering or exiting the water and breath around it. If I get nailed and knocked down, I just clamp my lips sealed around the regulator. If my lungs are full of ambient air, I use that until I get back to the surface. If I am held down longer and need air, then I have it available.

 

[headhunter]

For "recreational" shore diving, I always transition the surf zone with the reg in. This is to give me clean air if I get knocked down in the frothy, unbreathable water left after the wave has fallen down. Of course, this is pretty much limited to wave heights up to about 4'. This is also the method generally passed on to students.

In my diving community, the scenario of big waves = embolism is known and occasionally refered to by very experienced divers; the general recreational diver is usually unaware of it.

If you are experienced enough to deal with the big-wave entry, deal with the whopping surge at the dive site, and (especially) safely perform a surf exit, then you usually know of the hazards, including embolism.

I only entered in really "big surf" once, roughly 14-16', and I used a snorkle, with a hand on my reg. The entry wasn't that bad, and the exit was more apprehension than real difficulty. They later found the guy we were looking for at a bar.

So much is "it depends"; the bottom profile is definitely one of the factors. Long, gently sloping sand beaches are more at risk for a wave embolism than steeper, quick depth beaches.

All the best, James

Thanks for the response James. I was beginning to think that I was the only one that had ever heard of this or that senility was setting in a little early. :11:

Where we used to practice beach entries on the coastline of Los Angeles CA, from Redondo Beach to Santa Monica. The "surf zone" as I call it, was something that you could get through within 15 to 30 seconds. If you timed it correctly, it didn't matter how big the waves were and we all got good at getting through "the zone". Over time, we would test ourselves with larger and larger sets of waves. I wouldn't call it much of a dive because it would be 0' vis on a rough day. It was actually fun as a kid! Not that I'd want to do it now. I don't think I've ever gone through something as large as 14 - 16 ft though!

Christian

 

[pasley]

Just remembered this, I did see a diver at Carmel River Beach that was in distress after getting knocked down. Had no air to breathe is they were rolled in the surf.
...

I remember a simular story at Monestary beach. Diver got rolled getting out. He did not survive the incident.

 

[headhunter]

I believe a more prevalent danger would be NOT having a regulator in your mouth and getting squashed to the ocean floor by a wave. I always have a regulator in my mouth when entering or exiting the water and breath around it. If I get nailed and knocked down, I just clamp my lips sealed around the regulator. If my lungs are full of ambient air, I use that until I get back to the surface. If I am held down longer and need air, then I have it available.

I appreciate the response Melvin.

I'm quickly finding out that I'm in the minority on this one. Lacking any evidence to support my view (I did a search since starting this thread and couldn't find any), I'm finding it quite revealing and you have a good point about getting squashed.

Thanks.

Christian