Is Halcyon price fixing?

[Genesis]

you sound like a local dive shop owner who fears competition.

Or is that like a bank robber who hasn't been caught yet, and bemoans the cameras that all the banks install to catch him?

If your business model only works (no matter if you're a LDS or a manufacturer) so long as you can break the law, then you should not be in business.

I was not born with any kind of "silver spoon." Every last stinking nickel that I have I earned with sweat along with hard, legal work.

I can't help it if people have built businesses on broken assumptions that rely on price-fixing and other illegal practices in order to stick around.

I would HOPE that the shops are just as pissed off about the practices of the manufactuers as I am, and would like to see it end, just as I do.

I know, in fact, that there are at least a few such shops, because I've had conversations with them - that they initiated - right here on this board.

I think its reasonable to assume that at least some of the shops DO like the "protectionism" though. I don't know how many or how it breaks down, but its a reasonable assumption that some shops have it pretty much written into their business plan and depend on it for survival.

But its simply not my problem that someone has written a business plan that depends on an illegal act, any more than its my problem if some business owner includes the profit from selling a kilo of coke a week on the corner in his "revenue stream" to keep his shop open!

Both are illegal, and I have no regard for nor any desire to protect either practice.

Its not in my best interest as a consumer, and its not in yours either.

You accuse me of being lawsuit happy?

Why is it that I, or you, or anyone else for that matter should tolerate illegal activity aimed at us, including actions intended to stifle competition and overcharge us based on restraining trade and fixing prices?

Why should shops not have to compete on service, support, policies, service and more service - that is, earn their margins instead of having them handed to them by a series of price-fixing contracts that appear, at least to me, to be flatly in violation of the law?

 

[seabass]

Price fixing in the way we are talking about it is not illegal because the market we are discussing is not dominated by a few players. A manufacturer, may legally use whatever criteria necessary to determine who you sell products to (except where it breaks the law such as race, age, religion or sex). For example a manufacturer may only choose to sell products to resellers who resell between a certain price range.

 

[WreckWriter]

I was not born with any kind of "silver spoon." Every last stinking nickel that I have I earned with

Not counting this latest "nickle" you plan to earn.

I'm sure the manufacturers are shaking in their boots because some gomer in backass Florida has decided they are wrong.

Good luck "genesis".

Tom

 

[Genesis]

that simply is not true...

The Sherman Act flatly bans vertical price restraints.

A Supreme Court decision changed this SLIGHTLY, in that vertical maximum price restraints are no longer per-se illegal, but vertical minimum restraints are.

Market domination is not a factor; the mere act of vertical price restraint is against the law.

See the Nine West shoe case for an example (Nine West is hardly a monopoly shoe supplier), or the recent Salton case vis-a-vis the "George Forman" grills.

 

[MSP Rescue Diver]

seabass once bubbled...
A manufacturer, may legally use whatever criteria necessary to determine who you sell products to (except where it breaks the law such as race, age, religion or sex). For example a manufacturer may only choose to sell products to resellers who resell between a certain price range.

That's what Microsoft believed.

Marc

 

[jonnythan]

seabass once bubbled...
Price fixing in the way we are talking about it is not illegal because the market we are discussing is not dominated by a few players. A manufacturer, may legally use whatever criteria necessary to determine who you sell products to (except where it breaks the law such as race, age, religion or sex). For example a manufacturer may only choose to sell products to resellers who resell between a certain price range.

Not true at all. Setting a minimum price is a per se violation of the Sherman Act. Period. What the manufacturers or distributors are doing is illegal, end of story. See here

Tom.. the manufacturers are doing something illegal. Someone has decided to fight it. What is your problem with this? Do you think that it should be allowed to continue?

 

[seabass]

What SCUBA mfg's are doing is not necessarily price fixing. I am not a retailer so I don't know exactly what goes on. I agree that price fixing occurs when the mfg and retailer agree on a minimum price. However the antitrust laws do allow a manufacturer to determine a price level (MSRP or whatever you want to call it) and to choose not to sell to retailers who don't sell at that price. Look up Colgate Doctrine.

 

[WreckWriter]

jonnythan once bubbled...
Tom.. the manufacturers are doing something illegal. Someone has decided to fight it. What is your problem with this? Do you think that it should be allowed to continue?

First Jonny, I'm not sure it is illegal. It's been going on for a long time, not just in this business but in pretty much every other business.

The reason I have a problem with this is because this industry is, in my opinion, somewhat fragile. Most shops, and likely most manufacturers too, are barely making it. The loss of any one of these is a blow to the entire industry.

I also think this guy is motivated by something other than purity and a desire to help Joe Average Diver get a better deal.

Tom

 

[The Chairman]

I hear you Tom... but devining intent off of a message board is a bit of a stretch. Too many signals being missed and too many false signals transmitted. I think we can safely say he's pissed at what he sees as an injustice.

I firmly believe that the BEST way to attack such a problem is to vote with your feet. If you don't like the way a company sells its merchandise then move on. There are other manufacturers providing as high quality gear out there as they are. You might let them know why you are passing over them, but really who cares. Those with the best practices will prosper and those who piss everyone off will falter.

Suing others has never really been the American way. I agree that we are way too quick to litigate in our society. There are too many people "benefitting" from mistakes, honest or otherwise, and it breeds a level of mistrust and inflates the costs for those not willing to sue... and that would be people like me!

 

[nickjb]

...
Suing others has never really been the American way....[/B]

LOL