Is "group" diving common?

[Walter]

I recently posted a similar situation and received the same negative response from members who I decline to name.

Actually, the negative responses you received were because you did not want to accept responsibility for your own safety

In truth, I believe you and Ben probably do still need help, but not because of any fault of your own. Most classes are inadequate and do not prepare divers to be on their own upon certification. The problem with that sad state of affairs is you are on your own upon certification. You cannot assume someone will look after you. If, upon completion of your certification process, you do not feel you are competent to dive with just yourself and a buddy with a skill level equal to your own, you should do one of two things.

Either find a very skilled, experienced (500+ dives as a minimum) and patient buddy as a mentor or take the OW course over again, but this time from an instructor who actually teaches people to dive. Use this as criteria for finding such an instructor. Above all, take responsibility for your own safety.

 

[Firefyter]

I think the safety of the group is the responsibility of each member. Everyman (or buddy pairing) for them selves is a recipe for trouble.

You're wrong. I'm only responsible for myself and my buddy. Say it with me, "Personal Responsibility". If you feel that your certification was not enough, hire a private DM to be your buddy or retake the class.

 

[seaducer]

I think this is a perfect example that newly certified divers have no real idea what to expect from the dive community, but have some preconceptions. You learned some important lessons, take them to heart, as it is your life, as well as your good time on the line.

First, nobody on the boat is going to volunteer much, especially newer divers. You want to step up and ask people to buddy up, and let them know exactly how new you are.

DM's unless secured ahead of time are looking out for the whole group, and leading the dive. That you had 2 on a small boat leads me to beleive the whole group was new, maybe they all took the class together and you got the last spot. You pretty much had you own DM, but do not expect that with out paying for it next time.

You should have done backrolls in class? Simulated at least? Some classes let on that we are one big happy family that reads minds, but that isn't the case. When the briefing touches on something you are unfamiliar with, or concerned with, speak up. Somebody WILL help you, but you have to ask first.

Alot of ops in developing countries will not bother much with certifications. In fact you could easily find a dive op to take you on dives to 150 feet on a single 80 straight out of OW class. You MUST know your limits and discuss things with the op before signing up, or you may find yourself on a "trust me" dive, and "trust me", you don't want that.

Unfortunatley the learing curve is steep. Most OW classes do not much more than introduce you to the gear and techniques, the rest is up to you to really learn. In the meantime the dive community is an eccentric, some of us are easy to get to know and very helpful, and some are downright nasty and will flat out complain and refuse to dive with you because you are new.

If you can hook up with some of the good ones who can show you the ropes, get you some experience, and have a good time with. If you can't find a club where you live, maybe you can hook up with a couple of people from here.

Getting back to your original questions, are group dives common? Yes. Are they safe? Yeah, no more or less than any other diving, just make sure you are within you limits and comfort. Was your dive op less than should be expected? hard to say. They should ask for a c card, but there is no law that states this, and so they do not have to. Most do though. That no DM helped on entry, well you should have been prepared for that in class. That a DM was right there with you was the right thing to do. I would say they are not a bad op.

Good luck...

 

[seaducer]

You know alot of instructors let on like limits are well known, universal, and supported far and wide in the dive community. They also let on that the community is very tight knit and new divers are welcomed and mentored by everyone with a smile. Unfortunately this Utopia is not as common as that, and many new divers show up not knowing much about the new world they are now exposed to, and based on the way some instructors make things out to be figure they will be taken care of.

 

[MeiLing]

You're wrong. I'm only responsible for myself and my buddy. Say it with me, "Personal Responsibility". If you feel that your certification was not enough, hire a private DM to be your buddy or retake the class.

I think your wrong and if you stated such to me, you wouldn't be diving with me.

Basically, what you are saying is that if you saw someone in trouble who wasn't your buddy, then you wouldn't step up to the plate to help out. What if it happened to be you in trouble and your buddy couldn't handle the situation, for whatever reason? I think you'd hope like hell that some good summaritan didn't share your thought process!:no

When you fight fires, don't you enter fires in buddy teams? What if the scenario was that a beam fell on one person of a buddy pair and the buddy couldn't lift it off the trapped person? Wouldn't you be relying on others to help rescue that person? What if the trapped person were you?

 

[seaducer]

I think your wrong and if you stated such to me, you wouldn't be diving with me.

Basically, what you are saying is that if you saw someone in trouble who wasn't your buddy, then you wouldn't step up to the plate to help out. What if it happened to be you in trouble and your buddy couldn't handle the situation, for whatever reason? I think you'd hope like hell that some good summaritan didn't share your thought process!:no

When you fight fires, don't you enter fires in buddy teams? What if the scenario was that a beam fell on one person of a buddy pair and the buddy couldn't lift it off the trapped person? Wouldn't you be relying on others to help rescue that person? What if the trapped person were you?

i dont think that is what was said or implied at all. Personal responsibility simply means that the only person that knows your limits is you, and the only person that can make decisions about what dives to make and how is you. You cannot rely on other people to make those decisions. And if you are not comfortable you can't just follow along assuming everyone else is going to watch out for you. You owe it to yourself, your loved ones, to seek out training and experience to be able to dive safely. If you are over your head (pun intended:blinking you need to make that known, and if you do not appreciate the response you get, sit out the next one. The life you save may be your own...

 

[marinediva]

"Alot of ops in developing countries will not bother much with certifications. In fact you could easily find a dive op to take you on dives to 150 feet on a single 80 straight out of OW class"

Sorry but that is a very broad statement, and one I find from personal experience not the case. The dive centers in these developing countries are run and owned by expats.
From very developed nations.

The pro's working there are either training or living there teaching. THey have access to computers and can do checks on certification with no problem as long as the electricty is working and I sign the exact same documentation to go for a dive there, as I do here in Australia, if of course only if the photo copier has received its ink delivery.

It is not a lot of Ops that will let you do that full stop.

Imagine if something did go wrong? For the expat dive instructor there would be little hope.

 

[Firefyter]

I think your wrong and if you stated such to me, you wouldn't be diving with me.

Basically, what you are saying is that if you saw someone in trouble who wasn't your buddy, then you wouldn't step up to the plate to help out.

I never said or implied any such thing. I help drunks in car wrecks on a regular basis, but I'm not responsible for them or their stupidity. I'm also pretty sure I don't want to dive with anyone who doesn't get what I'm saying, so you don't have to worry about me ever asking to be your buddy.

i dont think that is what was said or implied at all. Personal responsibility simply means that the only person that knows your limits is you, and the only person that can make decisions about what dives to make and how is you. You cannot rely on other people to make those decisions. And if you are not comfortable you can't just follow along assuming everyone else is going to watch out for you. You owe it to yourself, your loved ones, to seek out training and experience to be able to dive safely. If you are over your head (pun intended:blinking you need to make that known, and if you do not appreciate the response you get, sit out the next one. The life you save may be your own...

EXACTLY.

 

[MeiLing]

"Alot of ops in developing countries will not bother much with certifications. In fact you could easily find a dive op to take you on dives to 150 feet on a single 80 straight out of OW class"

Sorry but that is a very broad statement, and one I find from personal experience not the case. The dive centers in these developing countries are run and owned by expats.
From very developed nations.

The pro's working there are either training or living there teaching. THey have access to computers and can do checks on certification with no problem as long as the electricty is working and I sign the exact same documentation to go for a dive there, as I do here in Australia, if of course only if the photo copier has received its ink delivery.

It is not a lot of Ops that will let you do that full stop.

Imagine if something did go wrong? For the expat dive instructor there would be little hope.

There's little hope for the expat tourist as well! Had a friend who was clipped by a drunk driver while she was walking in Sydney and barely had her medical bills paid let alone receiving compensation for the permanent damage to hand (loss of the use of her thumb) that she received.

 

[MeiLing]

For Firefyter and Seaducer:

I don't think that you read the OP's post very well. He got put into a position that went against his training and had a entire group who didn't see much of a problem with going against the basic premises of any scuba cert training.

I think he knew what his limitations were. He pretty clearly stated them in his post. Did you hire a divemaster your first dives out of your certs? Prolly not! You probably relied on your skills, for better or worse, or others to watch over you.

I highly doubt that your skills were any better than his! More often than not, that is the case with men! More testosterone than brains!

Drunk drivers do make it home unscathed quite a lot. Doesn't mean it was a smart thing to do!

For the OP: I think what you really wanted was just one person, reassuring you that someone had your back. The buddy that you had been trained to expect. It would have been appropriate for the DM to ask who the buddy teams were and assign any odd men out. However, you always run a risk in that situation that you get a bad buddy. Just because you hired a personal DM doesn't mean you're going to get a good one either, for that matter!

Good luck with your future dives!