Is "group" diving common?

[Island Girl Roxy]

Hey all,

A few days ago I did my 1st post certification dives of Laughing Bird Caye in Belize. When I signed up to dive the dive shop never asked to see my certification card, which made me kind of nervous.

I asked the dive shop for an "easy" location as this would be my first real dive and the first time in open ocean. I then informed the 2 divemasters and the 5 divers this was my first time, and explained my experience.

When we got to the dive site the lead divemaster gave us a briefing of depth etc. We did a backwards flip entry off the side of the boat (which I had never done) and proceeded to go down as a group.

We were never assigned buddies and I was there solo. One divemaster did stay with me and watched over me which I was glad to have. We basically travelled in a large group.

Is this common practice? Also, I didn't have anyone sign my log book since no one seemed to have one with them.

Thanks.

Hi DiverBen
I travel a lot and have been to Placencia, Belize about 10 times. Everytime dive with the same company you dove there.
I remember when I fill out the liability realise form with them they ask you for a few questions:
Your full name, date of birth and also agency that you are certified with. This is in case you forget your dive card or in the case that for any reason you show up in the last minute or any other reason they could check on line for your number.
They also ask you when was your last dive? In case that you haven't dive for quite a while so they will ask you to do a refresher class.
They also ask you how many dives do you have? In case that you are not very experience they will assing an experience diver with you
Most of the dives I dove with them a group of 8 divers had 2 DMs 1 for the experience divers and one for the new divers.

EASY LOCATION
Anybody who have been en Placencia, Belize knows that Laughing Bird is the EASIEST DIVE in the area. They mostly use this site for new divers, students or if the weather is not good.

NEVER ASSIGNED DIVE BUDDY
The experiences I had in Belize mostly everybody travels with dive buddies, but if not another solo traveler can buddy up with you, somebody already told you SPEAK UP. But you said the other DM dove with you.

LARGE GROUP
What do you call a big group?
Remember 6 - 8 divers per DM is normal.

Other than that did you have a good experience?
I always have fun with them, and recommend other friend who travel to Placencia to dive with
them.
If you go to a dive center and if for any reason they don't ask you for the card, ask them
if they want to see your card that will show that you are a responsible diver.

 

[peterbj7]

Walter is right though perhaps a bit blunt. We run group dives and from our point of view don't worry too much whether divers are buddied or not. But then our groups are small and the divemaster is actually in control - he leads the dive and he initiates the ascent. Occasionally we have divers who "do their own thing", and if they are sufficiently experienced it doesn't particularly worry us so long as we know where they are. If they aren't adequately experienced then we do enforce control over them.

We do check cert cards when divers register with us, and get them to complete an information sheet on themselves and their diving experience, but that's mainly so we can assess their abilities and choose appropriate dives for them. I am sometimes told "I've forgotten my card", and I decide whether I believe them. If I decide I do then I let them dive but keep a close eye on them initially - it doesn't take long to tell whether someone knows how to dive.

There's no legal requirement for a diver to have a cert card and for us there's no insurance implication either, though for dive shops that use PADI cover they are obliged to make sure all divers are appropriately certified for the dives they are about to make. It's up to me whether I'll take any individual out on my boat.

Occasionally I have had non-divers who have lied about having forgotten their cards and usually I've sussed them early on, but we did have one woman who convinced one of my divemasters that she wanted to do a deep dive with him. They got to around 50' on the way down to 130' when she suddenly inflated her BC and rocketed towards the surface. Luckily he was on the ball and managed to stop/slow her. Turned out she'd never been diving in her life and wanted to save the cost of a course! Why would anyone do that?

 

[Island Girl Roxy]

If I remember correctly from a recent trip to Belize, this was the shop that had a sign outside that said "No cert - no problem! You ARE certified here."

All the Dive shops I dove in Placencia ask for the Dive card including this one after 60 dives I done with them still ask me for a dive card. I have almost 600 dives and if for any reason any dive shop forget to ask me, I ask if they want to see my card.
I don't agree with you with this comment. I personally know that Dive Shop owner and know that for her is more like No cert - no problem! We will get you certified here..

 

[krbailey]

Because Walter doesn't need help on his first dive after certification.. doesn't mean other people don't. I used DM's for several dives after certification, even with a buddy.
They helped me with bouyancy, finding things, gear configuration and technique. The important point that keep's coming up in the responses is that it doesn't matter if group diving is normal or not, you need to understand what you are getting into before you start a dive as much as possible. Sharing that you were new was the right thing to do, not asking for a buddy when you have so little experience was not the right thing to do.
But you are here, you are asking questions and you seem to be absorbing the recommendations.. that's all good.

I'm in agreement with Frank. I recently posted a similar situation and received the same negative response from members who I decline to name. I've run into more than a few experienced divers who find it hard to believe I'm allowed in the same ocean as they are. Apparently, no one on your dive was considerate enough to offer a guiding hand. I too was hesitant to push the issue of my inexperience. Brief classes and a test may certify you, but as in any teaching situation, reinforcement of the basics is crucial. Imagine your comfort level if someone reached out to you saying "Congratulations on your new cert. Let's go over a few of the basics so were all on the same page." I think the safety of the group is the responsibility of each member. Everyman (or buddy pairing) for them selves is a recipe for trouble.

 

[marinediva]

It is very common to find guided tours like you have described.
You have an Open Water Certificate, just because it is someones first dive does not mean they need help. You did not mention how long it was between your course finishing and your first dive. I find it surprising they did not ask for your card. Knowing that you are doing your first dive you are right to make them aware. Maybe they did not make you aware that you were infact buddied with the DM. DID you do a buddy check? DID a DM check your gear before entry.

After reading what you wrote the memories entered my mind of the number of times I was asked or had to ask a fellow DMT to jump onto a dive I was leading because in the group I was leading there was a diver whose confidence level could have been higher and needed a confident buddy. I am going to tell the diver this is his buddy but I would not be telling him why or making a big scene of it.

May I suggest that you continue your training and understand when you are on these boats you are your own diver. If you do not feel comfortable doing a backward roll into the water then don't do it. Ask to enter via the boat steps or a long stride off the duckboard. Remember dive for your ability. If your gear that you have hired does not seem right, ask for it to be exchanged and tell them why. If you feel the wet suit will not be warm enough. Ask for one more and be warm. If you are unsure of what weight to put on, ask that you are first in and do a quick bouancy check before the dive.

If you are at a two dive site that is new to you, use the first dive as an orientation with a group and maybe you and your buddy can do the second dive in a single buddy team. If you have been paired up with someone who feels safety is something you learn about but don't ever think about ask for another buddy.

You are the paying customer, they are offering a service.

 

[krbailey]

FYI I am wearing fire proof underwear, so let the flaming commence!

 

[BHB ScubaTroll]

I was merely asking if this was normal or abnormal for a dive trip.

I felt by informing everyone that this was my first dive I was clearly indicating that I would need help, which is why the divemaster stayed with me.

Hi Ben, and welcome...

You've now been introduced to Walter. He can be blunt at times, but he is correct. He's an excellent instructor and an excellent dive buddy (sometimes the written word doesn't translate as well without body language and inflection from being in front of the other person)...

OK...

First - Congratulations on your new life as a diver!

Second - To answer the title of your question, "Is 'group' diving common?" the answer is yes for the situation you were diving. It is very common in the Caribbean and especially on "tourist" dives (Dives where you get off a cruise ship or are part of some other type of "fly-in-fly-out" type of group or walk-in individual). These types of dives are very common for Caribbean dive shops. They will take you to the easiest dive sites and a DM will keep an eye on you... ALL of you on the dive.

Third -

A few days ago I did my 1st post certification dives of Laughing Bird Caye in Belize. When I signed up to dive the dive shop never asked to see my certification card, which made me kind of nervous.

Asking for certification proof is for the shop's benefit, not yours. It can indicate additional issues, but does not always mean they neglect other safety criteria. Laws are different for different countries when it comes to diving. Don Francisco is from Belize and his post gives you an excellent idea of how "laid back" many dive operations are (not just in Belize, but throughout the Carribean... Thanks for your post Don)

I asked the dive shop for an "easy" location as this would be my first real dive and the first time in open ocean. I then informed the "2 divemasters and the 5 divers" this was my first time, and explained my experience.

Excellent ratio of DMs to divers... Count yourself as very lucky to have that ratio. It was probably twice the ratio (instructor-to-student) you had for your dive class

Fourth -

When we got to the dive site the lead divemaster gave us a briefing of depth etc.

Fantastic! They are doing their job by informing you of the conditions. It is now up to you to speak up if this is out of your comfort level...

We did a backwards flip entry off the side of the boat (which I had never done) and proceeded to go down as a group.

Since this was outside your skill set (or perhaps you watched the others and decided it was not that difficult...), this is the opportune moment to have a DM teach you this basic (but, yet unlearned...) diver entry... speak up!

Fifth -

We were never assigned buddies and I was there solo.

If this was an issue for you, you REALLY need to speak up prior to entry! Someone else here mentioned that many divers travel with their buddies. That is very true. We have a group going to Saba in a week, and almost every person on the trip is traveling with their buddy (Yes, it takes time to find the "right" dive buddy that will travel with you.... probably explains why I became a solo diver so soon... lol)

One divemaster did stay with me and watched over me which I was glad to have. We basically travelled in a large group.

I am only reading into this... You say a DM stayed with you... and then you say you traveled as a large group... (large group is very common). Did the DM watching over you point out some/anything you might have not seen if he didn't point it out to you? If that is the case... You were definitely diving with a "buddy"!

If that is the case, you were diving with a qualified buddy, and didn't know it...

Sixth -

... Also, I didn't have anyone sign my log book since no one seemed to have one with them.

Much like the flying industry... after you have learned and received the required paper, it is no longer required that anyone sign your log book. Your log book is yours. It is for your private history, and not "required" for continued diving (unlike the pilot where the log is required to show specifics for re-cert, etc...). Your dive log is your badge of honor. Some/Many shops will have their logo on a stamp and will offer you that stamp. Eventually, that will wear off you, and your log will take on its own meaning for you. Some have given up their log books, and others adapt them to their diving needs...

Many of the divers who continue logging dives do so in many different ways...

Walter, for instance, uses a composition notebook and has details I will never recall for dives we've been on together. I, on the other hand, use a standard dive 3-ring and have designed my own pages with NitrOx %'s, etc... and small enough comment sections to have 4 dives per page (front and back)... My girlfriend has different design for the same standard dive 3-ring...

No one has signed my log since I was originally certified (notice, no one addressed that issue from your original post... they felt you would figure it out on your own).

I will only add this one comment... You will encounter a number of divers during your life that will tell you that they stopped keeping a log (and they have 10000's of dives...). For those people, my personal opinion is that if they didn't log them, they can't really come up with the numbers... (I did 200 dives one year, and it felt like I did more than 500. If I hadn't kept a log, I would claim I've done 1000's of dives too...)

Again, welcome to your new life as a diver! And, welcome to the board...!

(OK, I just took the time to answer your question with all the same answers Walter did... He was just more to-the-point than I was... It took me 45 minutes to answer this way...)

 

[BHB ScubaTroll]

I'm in agreement with Frank. I recently posted a similar situation and received the same negative response from members who I decline to name. I've run into more than a few experienced divers who find it hard to believe I'm allowed in the same ocean as they are. Apparently, no one on your dive was considerate enough to offer a guiding hand. I too was hesitant to push the issue of my inexperience. Brief classes and a test may certify you, but as in any teaching situation, reinforcement of the basics is crucial. Imagine your comfort level if someone reached out to you saying "Congratulations on your new cert. Let's go over a few of the basics so were all on the same page." I think the safety of the group is the responsibility of each member. Everyman (or buddy pairing) for them selves is a recipe for trouble.

While I just spent 45 minutes answering the original poster... Please excuse me for being blunt on this one...

1. Did you, or did you not answer enough questions correctly on your OW certification test to be certified?
2. Did you, or did you not learn enough about the issues that will "kill you" in SCUBA to pass the certification test?
3. Do you, or do you NOT take responsibility for your own diving safety?
4. Do you, or do you not need a refresher course (or, a re-read of your certification manual to remember how NOT to "kill" yourself while diving?
5. The safety of the group?
6. It IS "every person" for them self. How DARE you require me to keep you safe! I'm a diver GD'it! I am responsible for my safety, for my mistakes, for my inequities and for my idiocy. If I choose to do it... GD'it, I choose it of my own free will!

(4 minutes I will never get back in my life time)

 

[1_T_Submariner]

Ben you have recieved alot of good info here.
I have never been to Beleize but, I would like to someday.

I have never run into this. In the Keys they asked people to buddy up if they were not with someone. Then if they didn't the captain insisted.

In Pensacola they checked to make sure you had a buddy.

In Bonaire you do your own thing for shore dives. I did go on one boat dive without my wife and just asked another diver that was alone if he would buddy up with me. He said he was a photographer but, wouldn't mind. I said OK I'll watch you take pictures. I think a photographer only qualifies as 1/2 a buddy.

In the Local Quarry they ask you when you check in who you are diving with if you are alone.

Edit:
You have already recieved great advice so I will just answer the question about this being the norm.

 

[BHB ScubaTroll]

.... He said he was a photographer but, wouldn't mind. I said OK I'll watch you take pictures. I think a photographer only qualifies as 1/2 a buddy.

More insightful than you realize... Most of us are solo divers. When we take on a buddy (as a photog....), it is more like............. OK, I took 5 min. to get this shot.............. Did I keep my buddy, or am I a solo diver again?