Is dive certification really necessary?

[boulderjohn]

As I understand the WRSTC requirements, open water courses are supposed to create autonomous divers, one who can plan a dive in similar conditions to which they were trained. They are to be competent in planning dives, buoyancy (depth control), basic navigation, deploying a DSBM while neutrally buoyant without a significant depth change (couple feet at most), and can handle the basic emergencies for which they were taught to handle.

If they so wished, they could remain within the constraints of their open water certification and enjoy a lifetime of diving. At that level, there are enough dive sites throughout the world that even if they are teenagers, they will never run out of dive sites.

Yes, if a course is taught according to WRSTC standards, then the divers should come out able to plan and execute dives at that level on their own, and it is up them to decide how they want to extend those limits, or even if they want to extend those limits. People often say that OW courses only teach beginning diver to follow DMs, but I don't remember the PADI OW course even mentioning following a DM as a possibility. Maybe it does somewhere, but I don't remember it.

What happens after that initial training is what really matters. Some people go out immediately and practice independent (with buddy) diving. As for me, in my first couple years of diving, I only dived on vacations in Cozumel, where all dives are by law led by DMs, and those DMs do everything for you. After a couple of years, I did my first non-Cozumel dives in Florida, and I was pretty much out to the dive site before it became clear to me that no one was going to set my gear up for me. I then had to remember how the gear setup worked.

On a few occasions teaching dive planning in OW classes, I have had students tell me that their experienced diver friends assured them that they only had to do that stuff in class. After that, they could forget it all, because "in the real world," DMs do all that stuff. For many people, that is true. I am quite sure that there are divers with hundreds of dives over many years who have not set up their gear since OW class and who haven't the foggiest idea how to do any of the dive planning they were taught in their classes. It is not that their training was lacking--they had just learned over the years to be dependent upon others.

 

[Bert van den Berg]

You can buy a hookah type dive system and dive on surface supplied air without certification. I don't think there are any laws against that.

Next month I will have been diving for 52 years. Started diving before PADI existed and rented gear when no certification was required. A bunch of us taught ourselves as did many back then. The gear was very basic compared to today. No pressure gauges, no proper BCD, no octi, etc. When you ran out of air you pulled on a rod at the top of the tank and it released a separate amount of stored air (J valve?). I can't remember anyone getting hurt.

After dive agencies started you had to be certified to rent gear, get air fills, etc. By then I had been diving for years and didn't bother till the wife wanted to learn to dive and didn't want me to teach her (smart woman). I took the OW class with her and got certified. Then couldn't stop taking classes (AOW, Rescue, Solo, Nitrox, Deep, Wreck, Deep).

By then I realized how little I knew initially and was a bit surprised how easy it was for someone to get certified and be allowed to rent gear and go diving (LOL).

 

[Celt]

What i would like to know is exactly what skill can’t be learnt by doing it yourself. I understand your going to need a cert if someone demands one but that has nothing to do with learning any skill.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

John,

Glad you chimed in as you articulate things better than me.

Yes, if a course is taught according to WRSTC standards, then the divers should come out able to plan and execute dives at that level on their own, and it is up them to decide how they want to extend those limits, or even if they want to extend those limits. People often say that OW courses only teach beginning diver to follow DMs, but I don't remember the PADI OW course even mentioning following a DM as a possibility. Maybe it does somewhere, but I don't remember it.

Yes, the fact that many divers (I have no idea on the percentage, but my guess is that it isn't an insignificant one) is that people are certified as open water, but skilled/trained to the scuba diver level. I've even read one instructor admit that he always certifies at the open water level, as the scuba diver level is seen as "inferior" and he doesn't want his customers to feel bad (I'm sure he has great Trip Advisor reviews). He even admitted to skipping some skills at times. I don't know how to address it. Can't report it, as I didn't see it, and he could just say "oh, I didn't mean it like that." I don't see any WRSTC member being all that diligent in investigating such issues, as they are motivated to maintain that flow of revenue, so such situations continue.

What happens after that initial training is what really matters

. Some people go out immediately and practice independent (with buddy) diving. As for me, in my first couple years of diving, I only dived on vacations in Cozumel, where all dives are by law led by DMs, and those DMs do everything for you. After a couple of years, I did my first non-Cozumel dives in Florida, and I was pretty much out to the dive site before it became clear to me that no one was going to set my gear up for me. I then had to remember how the gear setup worked.

Yes. I had one student go diving with friends the day after he completed his certification. One of his dive buddies reached out to me and gave me accolades as he didn't have to babysit. Then that same student stopped diving for months, got some new gear, and had some issues recomposing himself.

On a few occasions teaching dive planning in OW classes, I have had students tell me that their experienced diver friends assured them that they only had to do that stuff in class. After that, they could forget it all, because "in the real world," DMs do all that stuff. For many people, that is true. I am quite sure that there are divers with hundreds of dives over many years who have not set up their gear since OW class and who haven't the foggiest idea how to do any of the dive planning they were taught in their classes. It is not that their training was lacking--they had just learned over the years to be dependent upon others.

Good point. Seen that a number of times on dive boats. I understand dive ops like to provide grade A service to maximize tips.

 

[Bert van den Berg]

What i would like to know is exactly what skill can’t be learnt by doing it yourself. I understand your going to need a cert if someone demands one but that has nothing to do with learning any skill.

True, but it is difficult "to qualty control" yourself. Good instructors can pick up on problems and point them out when you don't really know you have them. Consider that first dive after being self-taught. If you get into a panic situation it could end poorly.

 

[Barnaby'sDad]

I'm not picking a fight with NAUI as I've heard this from instructors/divers from multiple agencies. The above statement sounds like a driver's permit to me. You can't actually drive, but you can learn to drive.

As I understand the WRSTC requirements, open water courses are supposed to create autonomous divers, one who can plan a dive in similar conditions to which they were trained. They are to be competent in planning dives, buoyancy (depth control), basic navigation, deploying a DSBM while neutrally buoyant without a significant depth change (couple feet at most), and can handle the basic emergencies for which they were taught to handle.

If they so wished, they could remain within the constraints of their open water certification and enjoy a lifetime of diving. At that level, there are enough dive sites throughout the world that even if they are teenagers, they will never run out of dive sites.

They will garner experience and create more muscle memory and develop situational awareness, but they won't learn much. And there is nothing wrong with that.

Some instructors/divers may take exception to the above, but that is exactly what I fundamentally strive for with my open water students (though my program is geared to those who wish to be cold water divers). To some degree I am frustrated by those who disagree, because it truly isn't hard.

You’re missing the point of that statement. That statement is intended to infuse new divers with the mindset that yes...you can dive without an instructor now, but it’s on you to continue educating yourself to ensure that you become proficient and maintain that proficiency.

There’s no such thing as a instructor or curriculum that’s going to result in a 100% independent and proficient diver in ~4 dives. Particularly not when said divers are going to complete the course, do a handful of dives on vacation, not dive for years, and then some will just pick right back up with the attitude that “I’m certified, so that means that I’m good to go.”

That’s the point that the agencies are getting at...you’re either continuing to develop and improve your skills (self taught or with an instructor) or you’re regressing. The mentality they’re sharing is not “go forth and enjoy your training wheels/learners permit,” which you were alluding to.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

but it’s on you to continue educating yourself to ensure that you become proficient and maintain that proficiency.

Actually, "you" don't have to learn anything in addition to what you were taught in a proper open water class. You don't become proficient, as you are sufficiently proficient. You just need to dive to maintain your proficiency. So I only agree with the point that is in bold/underlined.

 

[Celt]

True, but it is difficult "to qualty control" yourself. Good instructors can pick up on problems and point them out when you don't really know you have them. Consider that first dive after being self-taught. If you get into a panic situation it could end poorly.

What problem will an instructor see that the person who is training themselves won’t experience themselves and fix themselves

 

[BRT]

What i would like to know is exactly what skill can’t be learnt by doing it yourself. I understand your going to need a cert if someone demands one but that has nothing to do with learning any skill.

I built a hookah and used it until I got certified. Read, study and learn. Dove as an OW diver until the NASDS card was in tatters. Somebody gave me an AOW for $75. Learned to drysuit dive, current dive, boat dive, how to run a compressor, how to mix nitrox and how to use nitrox on my own. Then took a nitrox course to get the card. One think I know, if you are on your first dive with a dive shop in Mexico they don't care how many cards you have or what the cards allow you to do. They watch you until they decide you know how to dive.

 

[Barnaby'sDad]

Actually, "you" don't have to learn anything in addition to what you were taught in a proper open water class. You don't become proficient, as you are sufficiently proficient. You just need to dive to maintain your proficiency. So I only agree with the point that is in bold/underlined.

Your position glosses over the fact that the average recreational diver (what agencies are catering to) does not dive enough to develop, much less maintain proficiency. Within a year of completing their OW class, they’ve likely brain dumped the majority of what they’ve been taught.