Is certification necessary for shallow water diving?

[thbcthomas]

I am not here to say it is not necessary to get certified, but I would like to have a discussion and hear other people’s opinions. Do you believe that from a safety stand point, it is necessary to get certified if you plan to stay in the 40 foot range? I know, “No shop will rent or sell you gear!”

My oldest son was certified at age 14, and the shop allowed me to be in the pool with him to observe. Needless to say I not was super thrilled at the extent of his training. No real work on buoyancy, just kneel on the bottom and clear your mask, remove your primary and grab your octo, take your buddies octo for out of air practice, etc… At that point I knew I was not comfortable with him doing deepish dives. I did take him to a pool we had access to, and we worked on his buoyancy, and after a minute his buoyancy was better than mine. Because I was not comfortable with his training, we have stuck to Blue Heron bridge and Lauderdale by the sea. In those very easy dives, he did great. Also the book work was not very through, mostly at home computer stuff. Dive tables were briefly looked over, and as we were looking over them with the instructor, I realized how little I remembered about them after my certification 20 years prior. The instructor did say something along the line of “Just get a computer and you won’t need to know the tables.” This shop is no longer open today. I feel as if I wasted money on his certification.

Part of the reason I ask is because I have friends that have shown interest in diving. I have allowed them to use my back up gear and we swam around in a pool. They did great, no problems at all. One friend and I went to a small private lake and swam around. He asked me, “Why should I spend $1,000 on certification when you have all the gear I need? Plus the computer tells me everything I need to know.”

Sorry for the late night ramblings, I am on some pain medications.

 

[tursiops]

A 10 foot dive will kill you if you hold your breath and ascend . Training -- thus certification-- helps prevent that.

 

[thbcthomas]

@tursiops Yes I totally get that, but does someone need to go through training and pay someone to tell them, “Don’t hold your breath.”?

 

[thbcthomas]

Also curious, how many divers posting on the board do not have a certification?

 

[iointerrupt]

Just imagine yourself on the witness stand of the wrongful death trial. "Yes I provided them with the SCUBA gear. No I did not provide them with three days of industry standard instruction. I told them to not hold their breath."

Certification isn't so much about teaching, as it is pushing liability around, ideally to someone with insurance.

 

[gamon]

@tursiops does someone need to go through training and pay someone to tell them, “Don’t hold your breath.”?

That's like saying why pay a driving instructor to tell you to turn the wheel and step on the gas.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

I am not here to say it is not necessary to get certified, but I would like to have a discussion and hear other people’s opinions. Do you believe that from a safety stand point, it is necessary to get certified if you plan to stay in the 40 foot range? I know, “No shop will rent or sell you gear!”

My oldest son was certified at age 14, and the shop allowed me to be in the pool with him to observe. Needless to say I not was super thrilled at the extent of his training. No real work on buoyancy, just kneel on the bottom and clear your mask, remove your primary and grab your octo, take your buddies octo for out of air practice, etc… At that point I knew I was not comfortable with him doing deepish dives. I did take him to a pool we had access to, and we worked on his buoyancy, and after a minute his buoyancy was better than mine. Because I was not comfortable with his training, we have stuck to Blue Heron bridge and Lauderdale by the sea. In those very easy dives, he did great. Also the book work was not very through, mostly at home computer stuff. Dive tables were briefly looked over, and as we were looking over them with the instructor, I realized how little I remembered about them after my certification 20 years prior. The instructor did say something along the line of “Just get a computer and you won’t need to know the tables.” This shop is no longer open today. I feel as if I wasted money on his certification.

Part of the reason I ask is because I have friends that have shown interest in diving. I have allowed them to use my back up gear and we swam around in a pool. They did great, no problems at all. One friend and I went to a small private lake and swam around. He asked me, “Why should I spend $1,000 on certification when you have all the gear I need? Plus the computer tells me everything I need to know.”

Sorry for the late night ramblings, I am on some pain medications.

So you are ok with losing your house and possibly going to jail when one of your friends has an embolism and dies in your pool?
That's one possible scenario of what happens when untrained people use your gear.
Yes, decades ago this is how people learned to dive. But many of them had backgrounds that aided in them understanding the risks or they were just very lucky. And they did it all on their own.
They weren't aided in their efforts by someone who obviously did know better but chose to put them in danger. And the first 30 feet is the most dangerous part of the water column because that's where the greatest pressure change ratio occurs.
People have embolized in less than 6ft.

 

[AJ]

@tursiops Yes I totally get that, but does someone need to go through training and pay someone to tell them, “Don’t hold your breath.”?

What you're actually saying imo is: the training is not worth the money because the instructor does'nt do his job right.

I would agree with that. The majority of dive instructors should do a better job. It's hard to find a really good instructor not knowing anything about diving.

 

[tursiops]

@tursiops Yes I totally get that, but does someone need to go through training and pay someone to tell them, “Don’t hold your breath.”?

Since people die without training ing, I'd say yes.

 

[CuzzA]

So you are ok with losing your house and possibly going to jail when one of your friends has an embolism and dies in your pool?
That's one possible scenario of what happens when untrained people use your gear.
Yes, decades ago this is how people learned to dive. But many of them had backgrounds that aided in them understanding the risks or they were just very lucky. And they did it all on their own.
They were aided in their efforts by someone who obviously did know better but chose to put them in danger. And the first 30 feet is the most dangerous part of the water column because that's where the greatest pressure change ratio occurs.
People have embolized in less than 6ft.

FWIW, your home in Florida is exempt from legal process, among other assets.

But I agree that it would be silly to take that risk for anyone. Go spend the money and get certified. If your friend can't afford it, then this activity certainly isn't for your friend.