Is being able to swim mandatory for those taking up the Open Water courses?

[DevonDiver]

you just posted the exact thing I was talking about.

My mistake... I misread your post, apologies. Consider it an amplification, with references, of what you said

 

[Progen]

Join a course, or pass a course? By the end of the course you should know both basic swimming techniques with fins at the least (might not be a strong swimmer, but the basics are there) and some under water confidence. If she was allowed to pass please be a good friend and tell her to take proper swimming lessons and maybe take a refresher course just to make sure she got everything in her certification fine. If she still needs confidence and practice a private divemaster/ instructor would be best to help her build that. You raise a very good point, there may come a time when it hits the fan, and it comes down to life and death and the knowledge and ability to escape the later. There's little room for second guessing and panicking at depth, you act or you face death.

Sorry if this sounds dramatic, I just watched this week's Game of Thrones and I'm still in my dramatist persona.

Both join and will probably be conveyor belt style passed. I did tell her that she should take swimming lessons too because I foresaw :-

1. Damaging marine life and structures due to poor control
2. Panicking early or unnecessarily due to lack of confidence underwater
3. Being just about totally useless in cases of emergencies involving another diver
4. Endangering oneself unnecessarily
5. Being a burden to others

There're of course others but I'm in a nice mood now. The harsh part of me is asleep.

 

[Bob DBF]

Swimming is one on my short list of mandatory childhood skills, like crossing the street. The planet is 70% water and you can't breathe it, so be ready to deal with it.

You don't have to be Johnny Weissmuller or Esther Williams, just good enough to stay alive and make your way to safety. Being good at swimming and likeing it are not mandetory, but perfered.



Bob
---------------------------------
A man's got to know his limitations.
Harry Callahan

 

[261311]

You'd think PADI would have an Intro to Discover Scuba class (glorified swimming class).

If the instructor is in any way "good", she won't pass the mandated watermanship classes and her discomfort will be noted in the entire duration. If she does pass and hasn't improved, report them as they're not doing their job. Their job lies in not failing students, but working with them until they meet requirements. The likelihood of someone who can't swim, dying because of a panic attack and couldn't remove themselves from the situation is high. While it seems unfair for the instructor to now eat this responsibility because the dive shop didn't ask a crucial question it's just business; if she happened to lie about her abilities on the other hand, I do believe she can be kicked from the course given any hard copy proof.

 

[TMHeimer]

I'll join the "onslaught" as gcarter says, as it's a favourite topic for me. No one has ever given me a scenario where you actually swim while diving--that is, bathing suit only, no fins. But, for reasons I can't exactly explain (though others have to a point), I think everyone doing scuba should know how to swim PROPERLY. It just makes sense--and is something anyone should know if they are doing ANYTHING in or around water, forget scuba. Having said that, I have witnessed quite a few 200 meter/yard Open Water Course swim tests. I have seen many accomplish the feat one way or another-- as any stroke is allowed, even dog paddle and create a heart attack for yourself. Personally, I would rather see someone swim one or two pool laps with a proper stroke and feel at ease. But that's not the standard--the standard is gut it out. As well, an instructor may opt to have the class do the 300 yd. mask/fin/snorkel test, which is not swimming and more related to scuba. So I guess if you do that you could wind up being certified as a diver without knowing how to swim. I have seen only one person actually fail the 200 and he was a real mess.

 

[DCBC]

Was just wondering whether it's right for non-swimmers to be able to sign up for the Open Water courses.

This is largely dependent upon the Agency and the Instructor you're taking your SCUBA training through. Some do not necessarily have a 'swimming requirement.' PADI (for example) gives a discretionary power to the Instructor which allows the applicant to use fins, mask and snorkel in lieu of swimming. So in this case, no swimming ability is required. A person is required to drown-proof as well as use this equipment.

Many other Agencies (other than PADI) do not have 'Standards,' but use the term 'Minimum Standards.' These are the minimum requirement of the certifying body for the Instructor to certify. NAUI has a minimum requirement, but if the NAUI Instructor requires a swimming distance ten times the minimum, for that course that's the distance you will require for that Instructor to certify you. I require 400 Meters, 25 Meters underwater, 15 min. drown-proof, a deep water weight belt recovery and a treading water exercise. As I prepare Divers for some rather extreme conditions, strong in-water ability and fitness is required. It really depends upon the Agency and the Instructor.

---------- Post added April 15th, 2013 at 03:21 PM ----------

Originally Posted by PADI Instructor Manual 2013 Watermanship

Before Open Water Dive 2, have student divers demonstrate that they can comfortably maintain themselves in water too deep in which to stand by completing a 10-minute swim/float without using any swim aids.

At some point before certification, have students complete a 200 metre/yard continuous surface swim or a 300 metre/ yard swim with mask, fins and snorkel.

If you can satisfy the requirements by propelling yourself 200 yards using fins, mask and snorkel and being able to drown-proof for 10minutes, swimming isn't even a factor.

PADI Guide to Teaching - Watermanship
The overall objective of the 10 minute swim/float is for you, the instructor, to see that student divers have reasonable swimming ability.

You can't test 'swimming ability' by demonstrating a 10 minute float! When I was 8 years old I could pass PADI requirements, but couldn't swim. I would have been a hazard to myself and my Buddy because of my lack of in-water ability. This is another example of today's Diver being dependent upon their equipment and not being able to rely on their own ability.

 

[boulderjohn]

I got my certification back in the last millennium at a tropical resort. It was not until quite a few years later that I became a professional and learned the requirements I was supposed to have met. Oh, the requirements were actually listed in the log book my instructor had signed, but I had never noticed that. When I finally did look at those, I realized how very many of the requirements were simply skipped in my certification.

Among those skipped were the watermanship requirements. I was not asked to swim a stroke, nor was I asked to complete the 10 minutes floating requirement. The pool in which I had my confined water training for a grand total of two hours was less than 5 feet deep.

Now, I was a swimmer, but it is conceivable that if I was not good enough to pass the swim requirements, I could have passed the course anyway. It could be that this is what is happening in this case. If that is indeed the case, the instructor and/or shop should be reported. It is a standards violation, and those of us who like to have standards should not let that happen.

I do think I know why it happens. I would guess, that their rationale was that anyone signing up for scuba lessons probably knows how to swim, so anyone who cannot is self-screened out. I have never had a student fail the swim test so that is probably about 99% true. As someone who has specific time constraints for pool time in the local recreation center, I am frustrated every time I do the swim tests. I can usually see in seconds that everyone in my class knows how to swim well enough to pass, and I am frustrated by the amount of very valuable (and expensive) pool time I have to devote to this. I can understand the temptation to let it go, but it is a temptation that has to be resisted.

 

[Progen]

... a deep water weight belt recovery and a treading water exercise. As I prepare Divers for some rather extreme conditions, strong in-water ability and fitness is required. It really depends upon the Agency and the Instructor. ...

Out of curiosity, how deep do they have to go to recover the weight belt and how long do they have to tread water for?

 

[oly5050user]

I got my certification back in the last millennium at a tropical resort. It was not until quite a few years later that I became a professional and learned the requirements I was supposed to have met. Oh, the requirements were actually listed in the log book my instructor had signed, but I had never noticed that. When I finally did look at those, I realized how very many of the requirements were simply skipped in my certification.

Among those skipped were the watermanship requirements. I was not asked to swim a stroke, nor was I asked to complete the 10 minutes floating requirement. The pool in which I had my confined water training for a grand total of two hours was less than 5 feet deep.

Now, I was a swimmer, but it is conceivable that if I was not good enough to pass the swim requirements, I could have passed the course anyway. It could be that this is what is happening in this case. If that is indeed the case, the instructor and/or shop should be reported. It is a standards violation, and those of us who like to have standards should not let that happen.

I do think I know why it happens. I would guess, that their rationale was that anyone signing up for scuba lessons probably knows how to swim, so anyone who cannot is self-screened out. I have never had a student fail the swim test so that is probably about 99% true.

As someone who has specific time constraints for pool time in the local recreation center, I am frustrated every time I do the swim tests. I can usually see in seconds that everyone in my class knows how to swim well enough to pass, and I am frustrated by the amount of very valuable (and expensive) pool time I have to devote to this. I can understand the temptation to let it go, but it is a temptation that has to be resisted.

John..they do fail!! I had quite a few fail, but one was the prize of them all..When I begin a new class, just as I start module 1, moments before I put scuba gear on them, I have them swim a lap to the deep end and back, just to warm up to the water temperature..That also usually shows me who is going to have issues..Well, this one individual claimed he could swim, as soon as he went from the shallow 4' deep end to the ledge where it drops off, he sank faster than my danforth anchor does on my boat..I had to grab him and push him back to the shallow end..His excuse was, and you are not going to believe this one, "well I thought I knew how to swim"...

 

[tkdgodess]

This is what i want from my students... To swim continuously for 200m, without stopping or hanging onto lane markers or the ends of the pool. If you are out of breath then slow down and pace yourself better,I'm not looking for olympic style, just that you can maintain yourself for 200 m for however long it takes you. Ive been faked out for 20 m, until the lanes dip deep, i swim with my class, and brought my non swimmer back to the surface. There are no sides in the ocean to hold onto. I think swimming is a life or death skill, my kids are learning to swim right now.

edited to add, i have swims first for ow class, no point having a non swimmer continue. If the student is not happy, he can complain to my boss, as i am under no pressure to put someone thru because they paid.