Is a VIS required if the valve is removed?

[redacted]

That price seems higher than the market demands in most places in the United States. I would not think that type of pricing would be good for business in the long run. However, this constant refrain of "you got robbed" doesn't hold water. You can't get "robbed" at a merchant when you are holding the credit card and he/she gives you a price. If you accept the price, volunteer the credit card, it is a little difficult to describe it in the same league with the real crime of "robbery". Anyway.

Oh, throwing around the phrase "you got robbed" is like calling employees of dive shops "tank monkeys". Simply put, it isn't polite.

Phil Ellis
Discount Scuba Gear at DiveSports.com - Buy Scuba Diving Equipment & Snorkeling Equipment

He did not get robbed. But he did get screwed.:shocked2:

 

[halocline]

That's pretty funny!

 

[Scared Silly]

Phil this assumes that the consumer has asked about the price beforehand. Further, it also assumes that the consumer is educated enough to know fair price when a price is given. Unfortunately, this is not always the case and the work gets done without an agreed or known price. Once the work is done, the consumer is at the mercy of the person behind the counter to charge a fair price.

IMHO the expression "you was robbed" is slag for the practice of overcharging and to me is not an insult but a description of a business that takes advantage of customers.

At this point the expression - fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me is fitting.

 

[diveat4850]

RonFrank, NudeDiver, ScaredSilly, and ReefHound
What do you charge at your shop?

(1) Derlin DIN cap
(1) Air fill
Labor and some good advise

I shop at your store, I buy some stuff online and if I find something that I need at another shop I buy it. I come into you shop at lunch with a brand new pony bottle from another shop and ask you to reinstall the valve, I'll pick it up on my what home. "I have never taken the valve off to travel and I do not know if anything special needs to be done before reinstalling the valve." You explain nothing special is required, but you will look inside to make sure it is clean and grease the O-ring. "OK Thanks"

My next response should be, "your not going to charge me, are you?" or "if there is a labor fee add it to the bill."

NudeDiver you work for free, right?

The labor fee was $8.50, about as much as it would cost me to buy you lunch. Yes, I'll buy my mechanic lunch for working late to get my truck fixed. I'm confident that this dive shop would stay open late if I was in a pinch for an air fill, they probably comp it so they would not have to open the registrar.

 

[Drew Sailbum]

It is my understanding that a viz is not legally required at all.Ever.

Visual inspections are merely a Dive Industry requirement,they have no basis in law.

That is certainly true for most cylinders used in scuba service, however is not universally true of all cylinders.

Fiberglass hoop wrapped cylinders require a visual inspection by force of government regulation... perhaps not a law, but certainly by government fiat.

Also, a visual inspection is required as a part of the legally mandated hydrostatic exam in the United States.

 

[SDAnderson]

Some of you folks seem to think that cheap is a virtue. It isn't. It's a conniving, self-serving attitude not dissimilar from the predatory practices you accuse the merchants of.

 

[halocline]

I come into you shop at lunch with a brand new pony bottle from another shop and ask you to reinstall the valve.....snip.....You explain nothing special is required, but you will look inside to make sure it is clean and grease the O-ring.

You're not supposed to grease the tank neck o-ring. If they did, go back and tell them to do it over, with a fresh, non lubed o-ring. The way to do it is to put the dry o-ring in place, then very lightly coat the threads with some lube or molycoat.

I don't think anyone has a problem with paying a fair price for quality service. The big problem is when you get charged what amounts to a little "mordida" for either poorly done or completely unnecessary work.

In Phil's defense, the stereotypical LDS employee takes a lot of abuse around here. They sure are easy targets, though.

 

[Scared Silly]

diveat4850:

I do not work at a store, I do my own inspections, I shop locally and on line.

But to answer your question about what would be reasonable charges:

Threaded Dust Plug for DIN valve - $4
Premix Nitrox $0.10 per cuft assuming a 20 cuft pony bottle - $2
Cylinder, visual inspection - $15

That comes to $21. Now if the shop you went to did a full visual inspection including putting a new inspection sticker on the cylinder then I would have nothing to say.

$8.50 to put a valve on under the circumstances you describe is not unreasonable either. But if you paid $8.50 what did you get charged for for airfill and cap? Some places charge per fill irregardless of the amount of gas put into the cylinder (great for those who walk in with doubled 120s). Most places charge under $10 for such a fill but typically half that for a small bottle but say they decided to the full $10 because you bought the bottle elsewhere so that leaves $8 for the cap. Which may not be all that unreasonable.

In the end what do I care - if you were happy with the service that is all that matters.

 

[DA Aquamaster]

I have a different view on neck o-rings. They should be very lightly greased, preferrably with Christolube or a similar 02 compatible lube - just enough to give it a very slight shine, if you can see the lube on it you have too much.

Some lube is essential to ensure the 0-ring slips into place properly between the mating surfaces on the tank and valve. This is especially important with a viton o-ring as they are much more susceptible to damage from the friction that occurs when you install the valve and tighten it.

I think some of the "don't grease it" rationale may be due to a belief that a lubed o-ring is in soe wauy more likely to extrude. However if the valve is properly tightened, the valve and tank meet and create a metal to metal contact with a fully captured o-ring.

If you grease the threads at all, again use an O2 compatible lube and grease them very lightly - placing a small dab about the size of a BB on the fist few threads of the valve. Too much grease just makes a big mess that you have to clean up later.

 

[Luis H]

I have a different view on neck o-rings. They should be very lightly greased, preferrably with Christolube or a similar 02 compatible lube - just enough to give it a very slight shine, if you can see the lube on it you have too much.

Some lube is essential to ensure the 0-ring slips into place properly between the mating surfaces on the tank and valve. This is especially important with a viton o-ring as they are much more susceptible to damage from the friction that occurs when you install the valve and tighten it.

I think some of the "don't grease it" rationale may be due to a belief that a lubed o-ring is in soe wauy more likely to extrude. However if the valve is properly tightened, the valve and tank meet and create a metal to metal contact with a fully captured o-ring.

If you grease the threads at all, again use an O2 compatible lube and grease them very lightly - placing a small dab about the size of a BB on the fist few threads of the valve. Too much grease just makes a big mess that you have to clean up later.

I agree with that.

There are some related posts on the thread below, post number 12, 15, and 21.
http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/regulators/275705-use-silicone-grease-reg-port-screws.html


This is from post number 15:

The idea of trying to reduce the chance of extruding an O-ring by having more friction (with no lubrication) is a poor and very unreliable concept. An O-ring extrusion is avoided by properly designed and manufacturing mating surfaces with appropriately designed small gaps. The small or non-existing gap is what will reliably contain the O-ring in its proper sealing place/ groove.

In Scuba gear, must of the O-ring that become static in service (such as the tank neck O-ring or the first stage hose O-rings), if they are properly installed and the parts are mating correctly, should have basically no gap for the O-ring to extrude. There should be some metal to metal contact if it is properly seated.