Is a normal to have a buddy on a divemaster-led dive?

[Jaydubya]

It's a well known fact that 99% of all statistics are made up on the spot...

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

On the other hand, we're supposed to be training people how to plan dives so they'd know these things without professional help ...

On the other hand, Hawaii operators have proven that in today's reality, guided diving has less fatalities than non guided diving.

 

[fjpatrum]

I don't know what is normal but I do know what I prefer. I've only been on two dives like this. The first I found a buddy and went through a fairly cursory buddy-check and we mostly stuck together. The second I was the odd man out as the other people in the group were buddied up. I basically just considered it a solo dive but stayed close(ish) to the DM.

If you want a buddy, find a single or a pair and do the buddy check. Ask the DM to pair you up if you're not comfortable initiating conversation, but definitely don't just follow along unless you're comfortable with that and have the capability to deal with issues on your own.

 

[scubadobadoo]

I will listen to the briefing. I will insist on a thorough breifing. But to follow a local guide is something I will only do if I want to see something specific. If I do not know the area I'd rather make a conservative plan on my own based on a thorugh briefing and evaluation of site conditions by me. Unless it was someone I knew from here or from past diving experience I am not trusting someone to lead me around. I did not know the area around Palmas or Fajardo in Puerto Rico. I had a student with me that I knew. The DM on the boat did not know him. So I made the plan we would follow and the DM took the rest of the group on the plan they decided on. I usually swim very slow and like to take my time. Many times DM's or guides don't swim as slowly as I do. I will only go their pace if it is the same as mine. Unless there are ripping currents or hazards that require the use of a guide I do not need or want one. If there are those factors in play I am likely to just call the dive.

BINGO! Every last bit of it.

All too often I find that the DM or dive guide's idea of a conservative plan isn't very conservative and often involves racing around the reef like a maniac on the Amazing Race grabbing sea life to show me like a drunk guy at a strip bar at 100 fsw. On the flip side, I have had some very good DM's who know when to hold hands and when not to.

If I can't handle myself on a dive site without a DM I am likely not going to want to do the dive anyway. As I dive more and get older I prefer my dives to be more recreational in nature and when the fun stops, I get out of the water. There are of course a few exceptions to this rule in destinations that require DM's in the water the whole time and it is in those destinations where picking the correct op for you and communicating what you desire becomes most important.

I have posted this before but my favorite answer on a dive boat when asked for a return time from the dive was, "It's your vacation, come back when you want. I'll be here watching your bubbles."

Unrelated, "This same captain once yelled (from the boat) at my wife and I (in the water) after surfacing from a dive in a bad storm, "NEVER TURN YOUR BACK ON THE DAMN BOAT!" At that moment we needed hand holding so I certainly am not saying it should never happen but a good DM or Captain keeps an eye out and does it only when needed IMHO.

 

[fjpatrum]

HMMMM......Now I'm confused. Are you saying that if i dive in HI, Wake isl. , Marshall isl., etc. that i will be on a guided dive 99% of the time???? that is interesting because thats not my experiance in any of those locations on charter boats.....and it surely isnt my experiance when shore diving those locations, which is honestly 99% of the diving that i have experianced in HI.

Dont get me wrong, i understand where you are coming from, and i understand that most DM's on the Charters out there are actually instructors(because they need to be to make a living). I just think your stats are a little bit exagerated.

tomfcrist, I'm new and only had 3 dives in HI last summer. All three of them were "guided" dives. I posted that I only had two guided dives in another post because one was the night manta ray dive and we just swam to the bottom and sat, which doesn't count as a "guided dive" in my book. I guess technically it does for purposes of this argument, though because not once did the DM (of the 4 we had only 2 were instructors) actively tell me to buddy up or "assign" me a buddy.

On the shore dive I did as my first post OW dive, I found my own buddy. On the afternoon dive before the night manta dive I basically did a 'solo with DM as "buddy" dive'. The DM on my afternoon dive spoke to me for a few minutes before the dive and looked over my gear but never once did he say "I'm your buddy" or "buddy up with this other pair" or anything like that.

To top all that off, the DMs for the boat dives specifically said, "when you're low on air let the DM know and they will check your gauge, point out the boat to you, and say goodbye". This means that as an OW diver with only 1 dive out of OW I was expected to ascend properly, solo, to a moored boat and not have any issues whatsoever. As it turned out, I didn't have to ascend solo because most of the group I was with ascended basically at the same time but had I been hoovering I'd have been on my own. I was comfortable with that because I'm one of those confident people, but I'll dare say I probably shouldn't have been as comfortable as I was.

 

[farsidefan1]

My wife is now my buddy on trips where she accompanies me (I dive more than her). When she is with me I am within a couple kicks of her ALL the time. We do buddy checks before entry and stay together whether we follow a dive guide or not. I was on a trip to Palau recently while my wife was playing with our new grandbaby in Japan. Being solo the captain asked us to "buddy up, then asked who eveyones buddy was. I thought all was proper. Unfortunately just before we started out first dive my "buddy", a vidiographer, informed me that his idea of a perfect dive buddy was one that entered and exited the ocean at approximately the same. He was familiar with all the dive sites as he had been there several times. I probably should have made some other changes. Instead I just arranged with another diver that I stay with them "more or less" and was basically a solo diver. If I was not with them I was within a couple kicks of one of the dm's. I am comfortable doing some solo diving under the right circumstances. I carry the proper gear EXCEPT I don't drag a pony along. I stay where I can CESA, locales with low to no current issues, high vis etc. Still my preference is to have my wife along. We know how to operate each others bcd's, we both like to "putter along" at our own pace, we practice buddy breathing and we have many hand signals that make sense to us. That is the best world.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

On the other hand, Hawaii operators have proven that in today's [-]reality[/-] Hawaii, guided diving has less fatalities than non guided diving.

There ... fixed it for ya. Guided dives have less fatalities than non-guided dives in your tiny little part of reality. In my part of reality, there are no guided dives. Same can be said for pretty much the entire west coast of North America. So whether it's safer or not is a really moot point.

Our approach is instead to train divers to plan and execute their own dives, because there won't be any guides to lead them around ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[fisheater]

My wife is now my buddy on trips where she accompanies me (I dive more than her). When she is with me I am within a couple kicks of her ALL the time. We do buddy checks before entry and stay together whether we follow a dive guide or not. I was on a trip to Palau recently while my wife was playing with our new grandbaby in Japan. Being solo the captain asked us to "buddy up, then asked who eveyones buddy was. I thought all was proper. Unfortunately just before we started out first dive my "buddy", a vidiographer, informed me that his idea of a perfect dive buddy was one that entered and exited the ocean at approximately the same. He was familiar with all the dive sites as he had been there several times. I probably should have made some other changes. Instead I just arranged with another diver that I stay with them "more or less" and was basically a solo diver. If I was not with them I was within a couple kicks of one of the dm's. I am comfortable doing some solo diving under the right circumstances. I carry the proper gear EXCEPT I don't drag a pony along. I stay where I can CESA, locales with low to no current issues, high vis etc. Still my preference is to have my wife along. We know how to operate each others bcd's, we both like to "putter along" at our own pace, we practice buddy breathing and we have many hand signals that make sense to us. That is the best world.

Not to mention that the guide wouldn't see the divers and the divers wouldn't see the guide.

 

[downdeep]

Always dive with a buddy. That way if a shark comes after you, you'll have someone to stick with your knife, thus diverting attention from you to them.

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

There ... fixed it for ya. Guided dives have less fatalities than non-guided dives in your tiny little part of reality. In my part of reality, there are no guided dives. Same can be said for pretty much the entire west coast of North America. So whether it's safer or not is a really moot point.

Is it really a moot point for the grieving families in Lake Tahoe? :shocked2:

In the past two years, how many certified recreational diver diving from boat deaths have there been off the USA's West Coast? How many of those deaths happened on professionally guided dives?

In the past two years, how many certified recreational diver diving from boat deaths have there been off the Hawaiian Islands? How many of those deaths happened on professionally guided dives?

If the answers to those 4 questions are, a number other than 0, 0, a number other than 0 and 0, I'm of the opinion that for the typical recreational diver, guided diving is obviously safer from a fatality standpoint than non guided diving.

My theory on why West Coast boats don't guide dives is that even with guided West Coast dives there will be some deaths, and by not having an employee in the water the operator can just hold up the signed waiver.

It seems to me that West Coast Dive operators may very well value profit above lives, where as it seems to me that Hawaii operators may very well value life above profits.