Is 130 ft too deep?

[Hank49]

Except he's not proposing to skip just the credential, but the training and experience part, too.

He's saying take a green, 30 dive neophyte, put her on trimix, and, with no more instruction than "follow me and do what I tell you," taking her to 160fsw.

I don't know Curt, but I will say this. All three of my kids dive (ages 15, 17 and 23 with about 40-70 dives each) and they are comfortable in the water. Started swimming at age 3. IF either wanted to, and Mr Bowen had all up to date, serviced gear, I would allow them to go on a 160 foot dive. They could signal to bail out at any time and he agrees. What's the big deal? I haven't been working in diving for five years but the attitude of many on this board about how dangerous it is diving even to 150 feet kind of shocks me. But I also allow my son to ride motocross and hit really big air. Call me crazy, but what is life without some thrill in it?

 

[jbisjim]

I don't know Curt, but I will say this. All three of my kids dive (ages 15, 17 and 23 with about 40-70 dives each) and they are comfortable in the water. Started swimming at age 3. IF either wanted to, and Mr Bowen had all up to date, serviced gear, I would allow them to go on a 160 foot dive. They could signal to bail out at any time and he agrees. What's the big deal? I haven't been working in diving for five years but the attitude of many on this board about how dangerous it is diving even to 150 feet kind of shocks me. But I also allow my son to ride motocross and hit really big air. Call me crazy, but what is life without some thrill in it?

Ok your crazy.

 

[Hank49]

Ok your crazy.

Thanks. So when do we dive?

 

[jbisjim]

Thanks. So when do we dive?

I'd rather dive by you so i need a plane ticket first

 

[Hank49]

I'd rather dive by you so i need a plane ticket first

But back to doing that "trust me" dive. I would love to go for a ride with say, Jeff Gordan or some NASCAR driver at full tilt on a track. Aren't we talking about the same thing here? Being totally safe is a good thing for longevity I guess, but it would get boring. If you could run the numbers, I would guess it's just as dangerous driving at 70 mph down the freeway. Now I know I'll get flamed so I'm back to work. Later,

 

[jbisjim]

But back to doing that "trust me" dive. I would love to go for a ride with say, Jeff Gordan or some NASCAR driver at full tilt on a track. Aren't we talking about the same thing here? Being totally safe is a good thing for longevity I guess, but it would get boring. If you could run the numbers, I would guess it's just as dangerous driving at 70 mph down the freeway. Now I know I'll get flamed so I'm back to work. Later,

That is a valid point. While I maybe would not send my kids with that kind of experience with Curt. No matter who Curt is.

What is totally safe is a valid, but managing the risks is is what we preach. deeb has a good point of if you only have 30 dives; is that properly managing the risks for them? I am not sure that it is. While I have no doubt, or can not prove otherwise, that Curt can do what he says. And that he has the skills to take them to depth. should he?

 

[Jason B]

While I have no doubt, or can not prove otherwise, that Curt can do what he says. And that he has the skills to take them to depth. should he?

Why not? If I ask him to take me and he's comfortable diving with someone at my skill level, I see no harm.
Life it what causes death......you can't escape it. You can totally eliminate a chance of a dive accident 100% if you quit diving...doesn't mean you might not get hit by a bus on the way home (I hope you don't...I'd feel bad).

 

[Hank49]

That is a valid point. While I maybe would not send my kids with that kind of experience with Curt. No matter who Curt is.

What is totally safe is a valid, but managing the risks is is what we preach. deeb has a good point of if you only have 30 dives; is that properly managing the risks for them? I am not sure that it is. While I have no doubt, or can not prove otherwise, that Curt can do what he says. And that he has the skills to take them to depth. should he?

It's between the person and Curt. A lot of people would probably try it...like people who try sky diving. He may even have an idea here...for outside the US. "Experience the Deep Blue. One deep dive for $500. Must have 30 or more dives to sign up and checkout dive is mandatory". I'm sure he could pull it off with his experience and commitment to redundancy in gas supply etc etc. In warm clear sea water, one person only with him...... In a cold lake or quarry with bad vis...?? maybe not.

 

[MASS-Diver]

Call me crazy, but what is life without some thrill in it?

Ya, good point, I hear you, and drowning is a pretty good way to got to anyways. But, really, if you want a real rush, maybe you and the kids should have a couple beers before hand or you know what else can really getthe heart going good - dive without an spg. And, why stop at 160' - why not do a bounce dive to 260', I'll bet they have atleast a 50/50 chance of living.

 

[Web Monkey]

Even now, I can hear the cries that I'm being too harsh, but we hear again and again about this sort of faulty decision mechanism to do a dangerous "trust me" dive, and it behooves us to determine its source. What is behind this willingness of people to blindly place their lives in the hands of others, with no empirical evidence of an incremental difference in objective capability, just

You're not being too harsh. Unfortunately, I think during the first couple of dozen dives, pretty much everybody gets to go on a "trust me" dive that on reflection (if the diver is lucky) turns into a "I can't beleive I did that" dive.

The problem is that the the entire OWD class is based on doing what someone else (the instructor or DM) tellls you to do, and for new divers, it seems reasonable that when they go on a dive, that if someone with apparently superior knowlege and experience says "follow me", that it's a reasonable thing to do.

Unfortunately, it's not, but this is usually only apparent to people who have already been on a "trust me" dive and lived.

I just did a quick skim though the SSI OWD manual, and didn't find any mention of a decision process where the student could decide if he or she was ready for any particular dive.

It's unfortunate that knowing which dives are unacceptable is a skill that's developed only after going on a lot of dives, while the need for it seems to be greatest for the newest divers.

Terry