Is 100 dives enough for an instructor?
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wb416
Contributor
I recall with 100 dives that I was just starting to really broaden my personal experiences. If I'd chosen to go the instructor route, most of my dives would have been focused on how to get others in the water, when I was internalizing the event myself (my first 100 dives were within the first 12 months of my certification). Even if you've had the opportunity to have a broad range of dives in your first 100, your experience across that range will probably be minimal. As another point, I know of someone that was getting dives in to qualify for instructor, and he was doing 20-30 minute quarry dives just to get his numbers in..... now what's up with that!?! He's learned nothing to pass on to former students!
I recall a conversation with an Instructor a couple of months ago that was a DM during my early months of diving. Referring back to 3 years ago when he got his Instructor rating, he hadn't had a "fun" dive during all that time, just certification dives with classes (BOW, AOW, or Rescue). I thought, WOW, how can you get so wrapped up in teaching that you forget to experience the very thing that you're attempting to relate to others. IMHO, he didn't have much depth of knowledge/experience to pass on to his students. This seems sad to me.
I may someday seriously contemplate the instructor route, but I have more I need and want to experience before I can truly have something to pass on.
I don't think 100 is enough, and I'm not sure that 300 or 500 is adequate either. There's needs to be a better way to quantify experiences and dives, perhaps together with dive length (500 twenty minute quarry cert dives is not equitable to 200 forty-sixty minute dives on wrecks, caves, currents, and reefs.)
I'll get off my soapbox now,
wb
I recall a conversation with an Instructor a couple of months ago that was a DM during my early months of diving. Referring back to 3 years ago when he got his Instructor rating, he hadn't had a "fun" dive during all that time, just certification dives with classes (BOW, AOW, or Rescue). I thought, WOW, how can you get so wrapped up in teaching that you forget to experience the very thing that you're attempting to relate to others. IMHO, he didn't have much depth of knowledge/experience to pass on to his students. This seems sad to me.
I may someday seriously contemplate the instructor route, but I have more I need and want to experience before I can truly have something to pass on.
I don't think 100 is enough, and I'm not sure that 300 or 500 is adequate either. There's needs to be a better way to quantify experiences and dives, perhaps together with dive length (500 twenty minute quarry cert dives is not equitable to 200 forty-sixty minute dives on wrecks, caves, currents, and reefs.)
I'll get off my soapbox now,
wb
I think this is more of a qualitative question than a quantative question.
For example: I know a diver with approximately 100 dives over the course of about a year. This is also approximately the number of dives that I had over the course of a year.
I dove with them on a few occasions, and while they were a fairly competent diver, it seemed to me that they did not have a very high comfort level during our dive.
The difference I believe, was diversity. My first 100 dives were logged at probably close to 4 dozen different sites at close to a dozen different locations. His were mostly at the same local divesite that he was trained in.
Granted, not everyone has the opportunity or luxury to continually dive new places. I was fortunate, and somewhat persistent by continuing to explore new places. Not everyone is comfortable doing that.
After having 100 logged dives was I competent enough to be an instructor? I really can't say. By that point I know that I had more experience than several other instructors I met, but that doesn't mean I was ready to teach. In fact, I'm still not even though I have been encouraged by my LDS to do just that.
So, in my opinion the minimum dive rule is just that; a minimum. Reaching that minimum doesn't necessarily insure that an instructor candidate has the breadth of experience, nor the skills to properly train others.
On the other hand, some people will reach that experience in 100 dives while it may take others 1000 dives, and there will still be some that will NEVER reach that level.
One more good reason to talk to a potential instructor and learn their qualifications prior to taking the class...
For example: I know a diver with approximately 100 dives over the course of about a year. This is also approximately the number of dives that I had over the course of a year.
I dove with them on a few occasions, and while they were a fairly competent diver, it seemed to me that they did not have a very high comfort level during our dive.
The difference I believe, was diversity. My first 100 dives were logged at probably close to 4 dozen different sites at close to a dozen different locations. His were mostly at the same local divesite that he was trained in.
Granted, not everyone has the opportunity or luxury to continually dive new places. I was fortunate, and somewhat persistent by continuing to explore new places. Not everyone is comfortable doing that.
After having 100 logged dives was I competent enough to be an instructor? I really can't say. By that point I know that I had more experience than several other instructors I met, but that doesn't mean I was ready to teach. In fact, I'm still not even though I have been encouraged by my LDS to do just that.
So, in my opinion the minimum dive rule is just that; a minimum. Reaching that minimum doesn't necessarily insure that an instructor candidate has the breadth of experience, nor the skills to properly train others.
On the other hand, some people will reach that experience in 100 dives while it may take others 1000 dives, and there will still be some that will NEVER reach that level.
One more good reason to talk to a potential instructor and learn their qualifications prior to taking the class...
wb416
Contributor
You make some good points, but I have to reference one here.
How can a student chose an instructor (other than personality) when they've never had scuba before? Even most incompetent instructors can talk circles around someone, no matter what field it is, not just scuba. If you're unfortunate enough to have to walk into an LDS cold, without the benefit of an experienced diver's advice, your odds of winning the crapshoot are greatly reduced.
I suppose my thoughts boil down to this: How many newly certified people walk cold into an LDS and "spin the wheel", vs the shopper that has a friend that's a diver or has stumbled across a good agency comparison like the one Walter did on Diverlink?
I think the only one's that can ask reasonably discerning questions are those that have experienced diving friends.
regards,
wb
It basically boils down to the same thing as anything else. Do you hire a contractor to remodel your house with out asking how long he has been in business? Then I see nothing wrong with asking an instructor about his dive experience or asking for references.
Before deciding on where to take my lessons at, I called several dive stores in my area. Talking to some on the phone disqualified them immediately; they just didn't seem concerned about answering my questions.
I paid the shop that most impressed me over the phone a visit in person. I looked around the shop, met the staff and talked some more one on one with the instructors. I was offered an option of taking either a PADI class or a NAUI class, and chose the PADI because I felt more comfortable with that instructor initially. Not to say the NAUI instructor was a bad guy, it just seemed that I had an easier rapport with the PADI instructor.
I was given information on the course outline, materials provided, what I would be expected to buy (book, mask fins, weight belt) and that we would have the option of several locations for our checkout dives depending on what the class voted for.
I was even encouraged to sit in on a class/pool session currently in progress if I wanted to get an idea of what went on in one. Another policy that I like with this shop, is that they will allow anyone to sit in on classroom sessions as a refresher at no charge and if they wanted to come to a pool session, all they had to pay for was the pool fees and any required rental gear and they would be allowed to 'play' while the class was in session. If they felt the need for a refresher course from an instructor in the pool , they would of course be required to pay for that attention.
If you are unsure about an instructor, go to the shop where they teach, ask some of the customers coming in where they got certified and if they liked the instructor.
A few well directed questions can't hurt, and I'm certainly glad I shopped around.
BTW, the shop I took my lessons from was a bit more expensive than some of the others in the area, but knowing what I know now about the training offered through some of the others, I am certain I made the right choice.
I have to disagree. Even though you may not know all of the questions to ask, the way that the instructor attempts to answer them can be a good indication of how they feel about teaching. An instructor that displays an attitude that you are a bother when trying to shop for training, is likely to view you the same way while instructing. Even if YOU don't know what questions you should be asking a good instructor SHOULD, and will do their best to try and answer them.
There are simple questions like "what does this course include," and "what do I get for my $$$" and "are there any other costs associated with it?" that should be common sense questions for someone to ask, even if they have NO diving knowledge whatsoever. Anytime I plan on spending my money, I want to know what I am getting.
wb416
Contributor
You "have" to disagree, or you just "choose" to disagree? ;-)
I agree with your points, but I'm thinking past the general indicators of selection. Just because a contractor has 18 years of experience, or that he presents himself well in Q&A doesn't mean that you'll like his work.
I'm speaking more specifically to an instructor that can quote you the syllabus chapter & verse, but isn't that good at conveying the information to you. Or perhaps the in's and out's of an agency that you would have avoided, had you known what to look for. Here, I still think that having someone that's been down the path before helps, just like recommendations from people that have used a particular contractor, are relatively useful.
It sounds like you had a good experience choosing a shop/instructor, but I think you're the exception, not the rule. Those of us that chose to communicate on scuba forums are the more inquisitive type, and are more likely to research a topic than "joe" off the street that wants to fulfill his dream and learn how to dive.
Now that I've experienced a variety of instructors, one other thing I like to do is ask to sit in on a class prior to access their instructional delivery and methodology. I think you alluded to something like this also.
regards,
wb
I think it all depends on the type of dives one has done...
I'm about to take my instructor course, and I have 102 dives only. After the course, I'll have about 115 logged dives. But I think I've seen quite a lot of things while diving...
-cold water
-tropical ones
-conducting a dive with more than 4 people in it
-conducting first dives (what we call in France "baptism")
-conducting OW courses
-conducting problematic dives... (that is, OOA situations, "I don't know how my BCD works, but I didn't tell the DM before the dive, oooops ":boom: )
-more than 20 dives at more than 40 meters, max depth 65 meters (I know this is a bit too much, I was only with some very experienced divers)
BUT I still think 100 dives isn't really enough to be an instructor... Because most of the divers don't have that much different types of dives...
*edit = smiley wasn't what I think it was*
I'm about to take my instructor course, and I have 102 dives only. After the course, I'll have about 115 logged dives. But I think I've seen quite a lot of things while diving...
-cold water
-tropical ones
-conducting a dive with more than 4 people in it
-conducting first dives (what we call in France "baptism")
-conducting OW courses
-conducting problematic dives... (that is, OOA situations, "I don't know how my BCD works, but I didn't tell the DM before the dive, oooops ":boom: )
-more than 20 dives at more than 40 meters, max depth 65 meters (I know this is a bit too much, I was only with some very experienced divers)
BUT I still think 100 dives isn't really enough to be an instructor... Because most of the divers don't have that much different types of dives...
*edit = smiley wasn't what I think it was*
Amanda once bubbled...
I think it all depends on the type of dives one has done...
I'm about to take my instructor course, and I have 102 dives only. After the course, I'll have about 115 logged dives. But I think I've seen quite a lot of things while diving...
-cold water
-tropical ones
-conducting a dive with more than 4 people in it
-conducting first dives (what we call in France "baptism")
-conducting OW courses
-conducting problematic dives... (that is, OOA situations, "I don't know how my BCD works, but I didn't tell the DM before the dive, oooops ":boom
-more than 20 dives at more than 40 meters, max depth 65 meters (I know this is a bit too much, I was only with some very experienced divers)
I honestly would re-consider before you decide to become an instructor. I had over 2500 logged dives before getting my instructor training and many a time problems that have arisen during classes or talking to former students, my experience has provided me with the solution to the problems. You could have a serious respect problem from your students and I honestly would never take a class from someone with only 100 logged dives. All that shows me is you met the requirements for the agency and also spent the majority of your dive time accompanied by an instructor in classes. How many wreck penetrations have you done? how many deep dives? How much leading of groups of divers have you done? All must be considered because the book won't teach you everything
Smartest thing you can do for yourself and for your students!!!
Take a step back and enjoy the sport of diving a while before it becomes nothing more than certification and training dives.Dear Amanda
I would like to ask u this :
1. Did u ever went in the water with 8 divers and that was the first time for them in the water ???? ( and this is a stander every instructor can take with 8 at ones) lets say for example 3 of then are going to the surface and coming down cos they have no experience about buoyancy yet. and an other 2 of the group going deeper for the same reason and u r holding 2 in your hand ????
One of the instructor job is to be in control in the water and sorry to tell u after 100 dive no one can handle such situation.
2. second example doing an Advanced course with an other group and some of them where shooting down and u have to follow then to maybe 50 m to stop then, and the rest in mid water and u have no idea where r they ,or shooting up form 30 meters and u are going to the surface after then and u have still divers alone at 30m what are u going to do if u lost one ,,,, or at 30 m the narcosis is there and they r doing stupid things ????
if I want to give u examples I have 1000000 of them.
anyway what I am trying to say is every one would like to be a good instructor he or she should stay and work for a while as a dive master and learn a lot about the sea divers accidents that could happen every day .
I keep telling my Divemaster candidate that they should forget about there selves while diving and they should dive for the divers, they should think of them as they are there babies and take care of them and be in control of every single sudden movement could happen from every one in the water.
I am not going to say more then this hope the one who answered yes to the vote got my point of view.
I would like to ask u this :
1. Did u ever went in the water with 8 divers and that was the first time for them in the water ???? ( and this is a stander every instructor can take with 8 at ones) lets say for example 3 of then are going to the surface and coming down cos they have no experience about buoyancy yet. and an other 2 of the group going deeper for the same reason and u r holding 2 in your hand ????
One of the instructor job is to be in control in the water and sorry to tell u after 100 dive no one can handle such situation.
2. second example doing an Advanced course with an other group and some of them where shooting down and u have to follow then to maybe 50 m to stop then, and the rest in mid water and u have no idea where r they ,or shooting up form 30 meters and u are going to the surface after then and u have still divers alone at 30m what are u going to do if u lost one ,,,, or at 30 m the narcosis is there and they r doing stupid things ????
if I want to give u examples I have 1000000 of them.
anyway what I am trying to say is every one would like to be a good instructor he or she should stay and work for a while as a dive master and learn a lot about the sea divers accidents that could happen every day .
I keep telling my Divemaster candidate that they should forget about there selves while diving and they should dive for the divers, they should think of them as they are there babies and take care of them and be in control of every single sudden movement could happen from every one in the water.
I am not going to say more then this hope the one who answered yes to the vote got my point of view.
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