irresponsible operator or unnecessary info?

[motorref]

I have a question for the group, and it concerns providing medical info to dive operators: I recently underwent a major reconstructive surgery that has a 6 -12 month recovery time (I'm almost at the 6 month point now, thankfully).
As this surgery drastically affected my mobility and has caused some significant loss of muscle tone, strength and endurance (all of which I expect and hope to regain), I'm a little concerned about getting back in the water this spring; I contacted several operators to discuss this, and to see what they would recommend/require, and as expected, was told that a new medical release would be necessary, a refresher course is a good idea, and to consider a guide. All of this sounds perfectly reasonable to me, and is pretty much what I expected.
But, I was literally stunned when one operator told me that they didn't need it, and it was only required if they were performing any training. In my mind this seems pretty irresponsible on their part, especially after I've told them of a potential disabilty, which translates into a definite liability on their part.
So; am I expecting too much of them, or is this operator being irresponsible, and should they be avoided?

Thanks!
KevinL

 

[Wookie]

Prepare to be even more stunned.

I would tell you the same thing. Your medical condition is between you and your physician. All I will ask you is "Do you have any medical contraindications to diving?" It is a yes/no question, and if you answer no, we have no further liability. The medical release is for instruction only. Now, if you say to me "I have a bad back/knee/hip and I will need special assistance to climb ladders/jump off the boat/crawl into a bunk, well, then we will discuss it further. The medical release is for training only, and does nothing to limit my liability. We go much farther than a medical release to limit our liability.

For specifics: If you say yes to the medical contraindication question, we will then tell you to get a signed statement, on your physicians letterhead, stating exactly that s/he understands your particular contraindication, that you have discussed the situation with him/her, and that s/he clears you for diving. Boom, liability transferred to your physician. If you say no, boom, liability transferred to you. If you say that you need assistance, for instance, getting up the ladder because of your new hip (which is not a contraindication to diving), we'll tell you to bring your favorite assistant with you.

A good operator getting advice from their insurance company/law firm will make double sure that your disability does not turn into their liability. Then, all they need to do is follow that advice. Operators who make things up on the fly that they can't defend in court are the ones to be avoided, in my book.

 

[boulderjohn]

I agree with Frank.

People dive will all sorts of impairments. What you describe is not really a risk issue, unless you are doing a dive that would be beyond your ability physically. You should advise the operator of any limitations you will have for that reason, and they will use that information to make sure you have successful dives.

I led a trip to Cozumel a couple of years ago, and one of the divers in our group had a hip problem that limited his mobility and strength. It affected the way he got into the water, and it affected how he got out of the water. We notified the operator from the start, and they had no problem making sure everything went smoothly.

On another trip I led I was supposed to have a diver who was confined to a wheel chair. He had to cancel, but if he had had gone, there would not have been a problem, either. We had told the operator ahead of time, and they were fully prepared to deal with it. Again, the only issues were making sure the dive sites were appropriate and the diver got appropriate assistance entering and exiting the water.

In neither case was a medical clearance required.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Exactly ... next month I'll be heading off to the Maldives with three other people. One of them ... my dive buddy ... was involved in a serious car accident in July that nearly caused her to lose her left leg. She's been in serious rehab since, and is looking ahead to reconstructive surgery. She's started diving again, but at nowhere near her former ability. The dive operation we're going with was informed, and there is no medical clearance requirement.

What the operator told you is correct ... clearance is only required if they are providing training. Otherwise, their responsibility extends to not taking you to sites that are beyond your existing training level.

My advice is to work as hard as you can on strength, endurance and mobility ... and if you haven't been in the water in a while, take a refresher. But you are solely responsible for those decisions.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[DivemasterDennis]

I agree with the collective wisdom of the prior posts, but would add this caution to dive operators. Here my scuba professional side is taking a back seat to my lawyer side. If a diver discloses a problem or impairment to an operator, the operator's standard of care will rise to include dealing prudently with the impaired or restriction the diver presents. Moreover, if a diver has an obvious impairment or disability, I think the operator has a duty to inquire, and then determine if the diver can safely engage in the dive activity offered by the operator. When it comes to medical conditions and impairments, most operators may think "ignorance is bliss" or at least a liability shield. However, if there is a known issue, either observable by a reasonable person or self reported by a diver, the operator needs to inquire further and make an informed decision as to whether the diver can engage in the planned activity. The same is true even if the diver has a doctor's letter saying it's ok to dive. If the operator's own observations suggest it is not ok for them to dive, ( concentration issues, open wound, disorientation, convulsing, complaint of chest pain, and such), there should be proper inquiry and a decision of allowing or not allowing the diver to engage in the planned activity. That being said, let's remember as divers we are responsible for our own safety. In most cases we alone are the best judge of our ability to engage in a given activity. The thread is not just about who is at fault when something goes wrong- its about making informed decisions as a diver about when and where to dive. I would hate for motorref to pay big money to get on a boat, and then learn he was not ok to dive. I think we all know how to re-enter an activity after an injury- a little at a time. Mark some pool time; do mobility and strength exercises. Get to the point where you can put on and remove your gear without a problem. Then come dive with me. If I see you are able to move yourself and put on your gear, and your log book shows you have dove recently or at least been in a pool recently for remediation, and you are other wise qualified, I don't need the doctor's release. (Although I'll be glad to keep it if you give it to me). If you have a restriction that I can accommodate, we will come to an understanding and you can still dive. There's no need to keep secrets from the operator, and there is no need to share irrelevancies with them either. Her's wishing you a rapid recovery and return to diving!
DivemasterDennis, also attorney Dennis J. Jacobson

 

[motorref]

Thanks guys - as DMs and operators you've all helped me to look at it from a different perspective. I "feel" strong enough to dive, but there's no doubt in my mind that I'll be limited in my walking ability, which of course translates into my being self-sufficient enough to carry my own equipment, etc. Obviously the most prudent decision is to make sure that the operator is aware of my situation, and to schedule some refresher time.
Fortunately (or not!) my surgeon is a diver, and has a much better understanding of what is required, and I've promised her and my wife to behave for once, and not push it; I'll have 7 weeks to get some strength and endurance back before we go to PdC.

Appreciate all of the advice,
KevinL

 

[black_sea]

Everything that needs to be said has been said, I would just like to add one thing -try to find an operator with rehab experience. For example, the dive center I work with is affiliated with Disabled Divers International and the instructor handling diving affiliated with DDI is very experienced in assisting divers. I send any and all requests of that nature to him. Now, I have helped many customers with special motor requirements in the water, but this instructor simply loves customizing his programs according to his customer's needs. I think if you decide to get a guide, get a guide that loves assisting, not just guiding! Hope this helps.

 

[The Chairman]

As a caveat, I had my achilles tendon removed and replaced since a bone spur had penetrated it. The doctor had prescribed physical terrorism but I avoided it and dove instead. It was the first time he had witnessed no atrophy. When I popped the other side a year later, he prescribed diving after surgery. I knew my limits and stuck to boats on flat or near flat seas. You are the best advocate for your well being.

 

[Wookie]

As a caveat, I had my achilles tendon removed and replaced since a bone spur had penetrated it. The doctor had prescribed physical terrorism but I avoided it and dove instead. It was the first time he had witnessed no atrophy. When I popped the other side a year later, he prescribed diving after surgery. I knew my limits and stuck to boats on flat or near flat seas. You are the best advocate for your well being.

We're you able to get Elena to terrorize you physically, or did it require a professional?

Autocorrect is such a drag.

 

[The Chairman]

Those were BE (Before Elena) days. But Osama had very little on the Physical Terrorists that have tried to help me.