Into the "Death Zone"

[FIXXERVI6]

Also how do you dump? hard to explain but I'll roll to my right, lift my left arm, then pull my fist down and "chicken wing"

Also I run with hella air in my suit, my buddy started diving with more air and found it to be actually easier because its a lot easier to dump a little out when you've got air in there versus when your running a squeeze you'll get pockets of air trapped like in your legs etc.

Also what kind of fins? A lot of people like turtles/jets due to their weight in a drysuit.

 

[Scuba06]

Have you tried planning a whole dive between 0-30 ft. I dive a drysuit in a lake that is only 30 ft deep. After a couple 45 min dives in shallow water, the safety stop will be cake.

 

[MissyP]

I held the safety stop my first dive just fine. I have seen others have problems when they don't have enough weight and I suspect you might be a tad light at the end of your dive.

If that's what you've got going on add a couple lbs and see how that affects you. I've seen more than one diver be too light and have problems shallow, and it sounds just like you described, or at least how I pictured your description.

I was going to suggest the same thing.. Undergarments can be lofty whether you realize it or not, so you might want to compensate with a couple lbs, just to be on the safe side..
It took me 2-3 dry dives to find the correct amount of weight & weight placements.... If you're still feeling light in shallows and are afraid of an uncontrolled ascent, when you get to about 10 ft, go vertical, lean to the right and vent your air (the air bubble will go into your left arm)

 

[LG Diver]

I held the safety stop my first dive just fine. I have seen others have problems when they don't have enough weight and I suspect you might be a tad light at the end of your dive. Typically you'll feel like somebodies got a hook in you reeling you in and there's nothing you can do to stop it. You try to vent and there's no air bubbles that want to come out, and if they do it's only a couple. Same for the BC, it's empty.

If that's what you've got going on add a couple lbs and see how that affects you. I've seen more than one diver be too light and have problems shallow, and it sounds just like you described, or at least how I pictured your description.

My buddy helped me do a weight check this past Saturday at the end of dive 1. Diving a single LP95 with 500 PSI left at 10 feet I was just barely able to stay neutral with no air in the wing and the suit shrink-wrapped to me. I added 2 lbs for the next dive but still ran into some issues. What you describe is exactly what I feel- just this force gently pulling me upwards rather than a large bubble somewhere that's got me off balance. Maybe I'll try adding another 4-6 lbs and gradually work some of that off as I get more comfortable.

 

[LG Diver]

Also how do you dump? hard to explain but I'll roll to my right, lift my left arm, then pull my fist down and "chicken wing"

Also I run with hella air in my suit, my buddy started diving with more air and found it to be actually easier because its a lot easier to dump a little out when you've got air in there versus when your running a squeeze you'll get pockets of air trapped like in your legs etc.

Also what kind of fins? A lot of people like turtles/jets due to their weight in a drysuit.

This actually sounds very plausible! I've been running the suit pretty tight in fear of a runaway ascent on the way back up, so there may very well be air trapped in little creases that I can't vent even if I get in the correct position. Sounds like running a few more pounds may let me run a little more air in the suit, which may make venting a little easier. I'm using turtles.

 

[Tigerman]

Having done my OW training with a 7mm full body suit and a hooded west on top of that, I was somewhat supprised when I tried a DUI CF200x... I actually ditched weight and found it to be much easier to control bouyancy..
I just inflate the suit to where its comfortable and use the bcd for bouyancy. Fine-tuning the bouyancy I do with the drysuit however as I find it easier than to use the bcd for it..

 

[dave4868]

The thought of trying to hold a safety stop at 20' or 10' in good horizontal trim gives me the cold sweats.

Hey, John, don't sweat it! Makes your drysuit colder!

I don't have a ton of dives in the DS yet (~15) but I would think that something this elementrary shouldn't be that hard to master.

Right you are! Something is handicapping your efforts.

Like others have said, getting more vertical, when needed, will get the excess air to the valve quicker.

That and trying a little extra air in the suit would be my recommendations. That would mean using a little more weight.

I suspect you may have your weighting too close to the "optimum", as some describe it and as you've suggested in one of your posts here.

This actually sounds very plausible! I've been running the suit pretty tight in fear of a runaway ascent on the way back up, so there may very well be air trapped in little creases that I can't vent even if I get in the correct position. Sounds like running a few more pounds may let me run a little more air in the suit, which may make venting a little easier. I'm using turtles.

The "optimum" is often described as having just enough air in the suit to reduce squeeze.

Have you determined how close your weighting is to the "optimum"?

I use about 5 lbs more than the "optimum". I find it's warmer, but it's also easier to vent enough air to stay neutral at the shallow depths when the tank is near empty.

I'm curious, have you found it easier to maintain shallow buoyancy at the beginning of the dive, with the extra weight of a full tank?

If so, it's probably because that extra weight means more air in the suit and further from that so-called "optimum".

I'm assuming, of course, that you're not trying to control buoyancy with your BCD at the same time.

Do you try to use both?

I use only the drysuit for buoyancy control, and only use the BCD for surface flotation.

Being the gear geek that I am, it's hard to resist the temptation to throw gear at the problem, but I don't think that's the right solution. The suit currently has an Apeks high profile shoulder dump, and the suit's been checked at DUI within the last year when it went in for new seals and boots, so I don't think it's a sticky valve, but rather likely user error.

My old suit had that valve and it vents fast.

So, how many dives did it take you to be able to comfortably hold good buoyancy in a DS while ascending through the 10' - 20' zone? Got any good skills drills you'd recommend for me to try on the next dive? Should I try gaiters? Please help. I love how warm I am in the DS, but I hate feeling totally out of control.

Thanks,
John

One dive, but I had enough weight and enough air to play with.

Just remember, you can potentially create more problems for yourself with excess weight and excess air in the drysuit.

You don't want massive air shifting and inverted, unstoppable ascents because you can't vent that expanding extra air fast enough.

Just use your common sense when experimenting.

Stay safe.

Dave C

 

[LG Diver]

I suspect you may have your weighting too close to the "optimum", as some describe it and as you've suggested in one of your posts here.

The "optimum" is often described as having just enough air in the suit to reduce squeeze.

Have you determined how close your weighting is to the "optimum"?

I use about 5 lbs more than the "optimum". I find it's warmer, but it's also easier to vent enough air to stay neutral at the shallow depths when the tank is near empty.

Being somewhat new to DS diving, I often wonder what an acceptable amount of squeeze is. I'm definitely diving with a fair bit of squeeze in the suit in an attempt to minimize the amount of air I put. Less going in means less having to come out later. Based on the last weight check I did at 10 feet, I'd say I'm at or below optimum weight. At 10' with 500 PSI I had to dump all air from the suit and wing to barely manage to stay neutral.

I'm curious, have you found it easier to maintain shallow buoyancy at the beginning of the dive, with the extra weight of a full tank?

If so, it's probably because that extra weight means more air in the suit and further from that so-called "optimum".

Absolutely. No problems at the beginning of a dive.

I'm assuming, of course, that you're not trying to control buoyancy with your BCD at the same time.

Do you try to use both?

I use only the drysuit for buoyancy control, and only use the BCD for surface flotation.

I'm not intentionally trying to use the suit for buoyancy. I've read many folks' advice here to use the wing for buoyancy and put just enough air in the suit to take the squeeze off. Thing is, if I get down to ~60' and put enough air in the suit to maintain mobility I need very little additional air in the wing to stay neutral. On the way back up, by the time I've reached 30 feet all air is out of the wing.

My old suit had that valve and it vents fast.

Good to know, but it's starting to sound like it's not a valve issue, but rather too little air in the suit to vent properly as a result of being underweighted.

Just remember, you can potentially create more problems for yourself with excess weight and excess air in the drysuit.

You don't want massive air shifting and inverted, unstoppable ascents because you can't vent that expanding extra air fast enough.

Just use your common sense when experimenting.

Stay safe.

Dave C

Thanks. Sounds like a little experimentation with a little more weight and a little more air in the suit is in order.

-John

 

[Tigerman]

A little side not as to not being able to vent enough air fast enough and getting into problems as for example rapid ascents.. you can always grab the seals and "dump" air that way, as long as you make sure the seals are the highest point.. however.. prepare to get wet if you do it..

 

[cummings66]

First I'd say forget about the check at 10 feet, do it at the surface and hold a full breath as well. Then weight for neutral and see how it goes.

An older Viking manual suggests doing it that way, what it does is to insure you're a couple lbs heavier than neutral which allows you to carry a bit more air in the suit.

One other tip, dive to 20 feet without adding air, notice the feeling? Maintain that throughout the dive, it's probably close to where you want it and you can fine tune it as you dive more. Same goes for the weighting, you can fine tune it later as you get used to the suit. In the beginning it's easy to lose control if you're too close to perfect.